Carmoney

Hey Luke, it was great shooting with you, too--you did a great job of handling a match that was particularly tough given your choice of equipment! I look forward to running into you at many more matches in the future. Take care, Mike

Well, with rimfire .22s, "smooooth" is no problem, but you can't really put "light" and "reliable" together in the same gun. Plan on about 8 or 9 pounds. On my 617, the C&S extended firing pin did help somewhat. Mike

Robo, that's cool--thanks for doing the math for me. I feel much better! Mike

OK, that's good to know. Let me ask you this--does it appear that the revolver HHFs vary from the limited HHFs to different degrees, depending on whether the classifier is 6-round neutral or not? As an example, the HHFs between revolver and limited on 03-01 should be pretty far apart (since revo has to eat a reload)--but would not need to be all that different between revolver and limited on 03-02 (six shots, mandatory reload, six shots, Virginia count). See what I mean? Mike

I'm hearing that instead of having any sort of HHF for the revolver division, they're just using the reguler limited HHF discounted by 10%. While that may have worked halfway decently with classifers that are reasonably 6-round neutral, what about all these new 03-series classifiers that require 7 and 8 shots at each array, and whatnot? Isn't that just going to completely screw things up, in terms of getting an accurate gauge on where a revolver shooter should be classed? Example: How can even a really good revolver shooter get anything other than a D-class score on something like 03-01 (8 rounds required), when revolver would be the only division forced to do a reload? It seems like the 10% reduction in HHF wouldn't be nearly enough to compensate for that. Or are there just so dang few of us that we need to decide it doesn't matter, and treat every match as heads-up between ourselves (like we do already)?? Mike

The new Wolf ammo in gray steel cases seems to be somewhat reduced in power--barely making the 165 power factor out of my Springfield 5" (which is known to have a "slower" barrel than my other 1911s). I tried some of the Wolf stuff in my 5" 625 and it was going too slow to hit the 165 power factor, and left a lot of unburned powder on the hood of my Jeep (where the chrono was resting). I've decided the Wolf ammo may be just the ticket for "lost brass" single-stack matches! Mike

DougC, you didn't learn to leave your strain screws loose and trust blue loctite from me--who the hell have you been hanging around with over the last 10 years while I took my sabbatical?!?!? Seriously, Jim, a lot of guys do what Doug describes and it works fine as long as the loctite fully cures, and as long as the mainspring doesn't start to knuckle with the strain screw halfway out. Personally, I bend the mainspring to the desired tension and then torque the strain screw all the way down as hard as I can. However, I live in the country and can test-fire the gun out the backdoor as I'm working on getting the correct bend in the spring--not everybody has that luxury. When I need to take the gun apart later on, I don't have to fuss around counting screw turns and worrying about loctite and all that jazz. I will also tell you this--most of the revo shooters with way-light actions have the occasional click during a match. Some of them just accept that as a price to be paid for the nice light action. Personally, I think you're better off with a gun at 8.5 pounds that you know for sure will go bang every time. Also, be sure to carefully check your match ammo--I run my finger over every single primer on my loaded ammo to make sure they're all flush--if I feel any sticking up a little, those rounds go in the junk ammo bin for use in a 1911. Mike

Jim, I think your component choices are just fine for shooting IPSC, where you have to hit the 165 power factor. I've been shooting 230-gr. jacketed stuff myself, but I'm switching to 230-gr. RNL bullets due to the pretty significant cost savings. 625s tend to shoot cast lead bullets very well (that was often not the case with its predecessor, the blued 25-2). I think I'll go with Clays powder, but not sure. I will be shooting my first ICORE match in May out in Colorado, and I'll be shooting my 627 8-shot with factory American Eagle 158-gr. RNL I bought in bulk from ammoman.com. I think if I were going to be shooting a 625 in ICORE with the much lower 120 power factor, I would make up a separate nice soft load using the same 230-gr. bullets at about 130 p.f. (maybe using Titegroup or even Bullseye). The advantage would be you might not have to mess with the sights as much when you switch back and forth between loads. The disadvantage may be (not sure on this) more pronounced bullet drop on the 50-yard shots you sometimes see on ICORE (???) Just guessing on that. Good luck--welcome to Revo!! Mike

Duane, there is definitely a story on the "fireworks incident" but it's not a funny match story, unfortunately. In addition to the personal and financial losses suffered by the parties involved, the fireworks incident was probably the single moment in time when the wonderful sport of pin-shooting--left without a real "national-level" match sponsor and venue--began what sadly appears to be an unrecoverable decline. Here's the story: December 11, 2004 "Tax return to help pay off fireworks victims" By KEITH MATHENY Traverse City Record-Eagle staff writer CENTRAL LAKE - Victims of a 1997 fireworks explosion at the Charlevoix Venetian Festival will get a cut of a $380,000 federal income tax return next year expected by Second Chance Body Armor president and fireworks launcher Richard Davis. Davis' bankruptcy attorney, Timothy Fusco of Troy, filed a motion on the tax refund in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Grand Rapids, where Davis filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in 2002. A committee of Davis' creditors, including Venetian fireworks victims involved in nine lawsuits against Davis, agreed to have his tax return placed in a interest-bearing fund for dispersal to creditors as the bankruptcy court later deems appropriate. The tax refund agreement does not resolve Davis' bankruptcy, said Traverse City attorney Frederick Bimber, who represents the creditors committee. Earlier court filings indicated individual fireworks victims may seek millions of dollars in settlement. A large fireworks shell exploded prematurely in its steel launching tube on July 26, 1997, during the Venetian Festival's fireworks show over Charlevoix's Round Lake. Shrapnel hurtled into the crowd of thousands of nearby spectators, killing Charlevoix resident Mark Yager and seriously injuring up to 15 others. Among the injured was Charlevoix restaurateur Tadeusz Dobrowolski, who lost his leg and arm. The only defendants remaining in the fireworks lawsuits after seven years of litigation are Davis; Second Chance; the fireworks-launching enterprise Davis headed; and three Second Chance employees involved in the pyrotechnic show preparation or launching. Second Chance is one of the nation's leading manufacturers of soft, concealable body armor for police officers. Davis' court filing indicates he was paid $500,000 per year by the company, as well as annual pay to cover tax liabilities arising from company operations. Second Chance officials also filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy for the company last October, in light of more than a dozen lawsuits nationwide alleging some Second Chance vests prematurely lose their bullet resistance. Second Chance has spent millions on warranties, replacement vests and vest supplements for police officers. Company officials in October laid off 56 workers from the Central Lake factory staff of 250. Second Chance's woes will have an as-yet-undetermined impact on Davis' ability to satisfy his creditors in his personal bankruptcy case, as his shares of stock in the company are his primary asset, Bimber said. "Obviously Richard's life in many ways is connected to Second Chance Body Armor, and it has some problems now," he said. The Venetian fireworks lawsuits are scheduled for a mediation session in Charlevoix circuit court later this month, at which time the parties, with the help of a neutral mediator, will attempt to reach settlement without a trial, court administrator Melinda Morgan said.

Assuming the 625 is in decent spec, not too loosey-goosey in terms of timing, end-shake, etc., and assuming further than you're using good revolver ammo (Fed. primers, properly-seated), I think the practical limit will be somewhere around 5.5 to 6 pounds. But every gun is a little different, and you'll have to experiment until you find the lowest pull weight that still gives 100% reliability (if that is your goal). There are ways of taking the DA down further, but they involve more drastic modification to the hammer, etc. I haven't tried it, but I've heard (and I believe) that Vic P.'s 627 action (done by Randy Lee) is around 3.5 pounds. I do think that the 627's method of headspacing is more reliable than the 625's, and I also believe that small pistol primers are easier to fully seat, at least in my machine, so some of that ultra-ultra-light stuff may not apply quite as well to the 625 platform. Those are my thoughts. Mike

Excellent--even three's enough to have a match--I'll try to recruit at least one more wheelgunner from Iowa. Dave, if you talk to those guys who run this match, tell them Mike Carmoney signed up under L-10, but will be shooting a revolver instead. I didn't see a place for squad requests, but it would be fun if all of us could squad up together. Mike

Definitely no classifiers! All 10 stages were fun (and in a couple cases, technically-difficult) free-style long courses of 28+ rounds. It was my first trip to the Florida Open. I shot yesterday (Friday). After getting up at 4am to make a morning flight out of Orlando, I'm pretty tired today, but I'm definitely glad I made the trip. I'm not going to be able to help much on any early results--they were only partially posted when I left the range yesterday. I was privileged to shoot on the "revolver super squad" Friday, and it appeared that three BE forum members were leading the revolver division (Cliffwalsh, Hopalong, and Carmoney) by the end of the day, but IRC-veteran D.Carden was scheduled to shoot today and tomorrow, so who knows how it will all turn out. There were a number of other revo shooters present at the match, which was very challenging to those limited to six shots per reload! Fun match. Thanks to everyone who helped me out along the way! Mike

Dave, you can put me down as a YES. If it's just you and me, don't worry about a prize or plaque, OK? Hopefully we'll get some more takers--should be fun! Mike

I've always used +P and +P+ in all my .38 carry guns, including the older airweight J-frames. The only time I ever had a problem was with a really old pre-M10 M&P that developed a cylinder binding problem from +P loads (that was back before I worked on my own revolvers, and so I really don't know the cause of the problem, local grumpy gunsmith fixed it but told me to quit using hot ammo in that gun, and that I should know better). I've always shot my carry guns enough to keep reasonably in the groove, but never put them through a torture test either. I did shoot several hundred FBI loads through my old nickel M38 Bodyguard, no problems whatsoever. My wife's M38 is loaded with +P+ Treasury loads, a few years ago she used it to kill a sick raccoon that was stumbling around on the gravel road by our place. I had to shoot a deer along I-80 one year on my way to Second Chance (after the damn thing ran into the side of my company mini-van and was flopping around on the berm), used a Cor-Bon +P+ from my airweight. Mike

Dan, good man!! Who knows, you might even get the chance to meet the "other D.Carden" while you're out here.... Mike

Dave, I think maybe I'll do the same thing--at all the other matches I'm attending around that time-frame I'll be shooting a revolver (except the Single Stack Classic the end of April), and it would really make sense for me to shoot the wheelie in Topeka also. I don't care about the plaque stuff either--as long as they would let us shoot for score and there were a couple revolver guys there, I'd be happy. Tom, the Iowa match should be an excellent opportunity for the point series. Try to come if you can get it arranged. Last year the OOPS Club ran a Single Stack match which was also a 10-stage, 1-day format (I'm sure they'll run it again later this year), and I thought it went really well. These guys do a good job and always run a nice, honest, fun match. Hey, it's Iowa. TriggerT, we'll look forward to seeing you and the N. IL guys out here, even if you are shooting a reciprocator! Mike

Sounds great--just don't wait around too long to mail it in--with only 60 slots the Iowa match may fill up fairly quickly. Dan, hope I have a chance to say hello down in Florida. Jerry, it will be nice shooting with you again if you can make it up here in May. Hey Dave, I already sent in on the Sunflower Classic (even got my motel booked, Holiday Inn in Topeka is dirt cheap if you pay online), and circled L-10, but I'd really rather shoot revolver if there are others who will do the same. If Skip A. goes, I'll bet he'd shoot a wheelgun with us too. So let us know what you decide on that, OK? Mike

Guys, if you're going to be in the midwest over this upcoming Memorial Day weekend, check this match out: --Sanctioned USPSA sectional match, point series approval pending --10 stages, 210 rounds in one day format (Saturday, May 28) --Plaque-only match --Free match shirt if your entry is received before May 1. --$50 entry fee That's right--only FIFTY BUCKS!! This is our home club. Not a huge range, not a fancy range, but still a very fun place to shoot. Probably one or two stages will be "run through the woods" type, really gets the adrenalin flowing, you feel a little like Johnny Rambo. Skip (BE handle: Badshot) and I would like some other wheelgunners to show up and challenge us. (Unfortunately, Sam has an AAU baseball tournament that weekend, so he won't be shooting.) Entry form is at OOPS website when you get there click on "Messages" and the entry form is sorta hidden in there (to keep out the riffraff). This match will limited to the first 60 entries received, so don't wait too long or you won't get in. Osceola, Iowa isn't exactly a cultural mecca, but there is a bona fide riverboat casino (which sits motionless on a swampy little pond) just a couple miles down the road, which is always good for a little entertainment the evening before and/or after the match. Let me know if you can make it, and write in "Squad with Carmoney and Ahern" on the entry form if you want, and maybe they'll put all of us wheelgunners together! Mike

I'm easily distracted.....

Another possibility: The special Hogues sold on the S&W website for that ridiculously huge .500 Magnum gun they make actually fit nicely on the regular N-frame RB guns, and they have rubber behind the backstrap. Mike

Thanks guys, Mike F. is supposed to be faxing me something...for some reason I was thinking there were a bunch of other "official" SCSA stages beyond just the ones we all know and love.....

Hop: He'll do fine, since he's obviously willing to invest the blood, sweat, and tears it takes to be a real wheelgunner.

Robo: For DIY action job information, check out the "S&W Smithing" board over at www.smith-wessonforum.com. If you spool back through a few pages of posts, you should be able to find some useful information on the topic of action work, etc. If you have specific questions about slicking up your gun, most of the veteran revolver shooters here on the BEnos forum do their own action work and will be happy to share their advice. Mike

I'm a SCSA member, but have never received any written materials from HQ (they did send me a hat, though!) Isn't there a book that shows all the other steel stages, beyond the seven used at the big match at Piru? I want to set some of these up and practice on them.... Was I supposed to get a course book with my membership? Can I get it from the Mikes? Or can I buy or (better yet) download it somewhere? Thanks!

Hopalong, look at the bright side....at least your crow will be served up in a nice spicy cajun gumbo!