Carmoney

I've tuned intake ports, chambered rifles, crowned teeth.....even cut Sam's umbilical cord.....all through the magic of Dremel. It's more than a tool--it's a way of life.

It's a 1993 Caprice, with 162,000 miles, and it's sitting out in the parking lot right now. (Pretty cool car, actually--it's got the LO5 350 cop motor--runs out pretty good.) I do have a car that's a little newer, but I still like driving the Caprice. My buddies here at the shop call it "the battle cruiser."

Mister Mitty: We stayed at the Holiday Inn by the interstate, if memory serves it's sorta on the NW side of town, not a bad drive from the range. Had dinner at the Texas Roadhouse last year, it's a chain, but I sorta like that kind of atmosphere. When we get closer time-wise, maybe we can coordinate a wheelgunner's get-together (with selected bottomfeeders welcome!) the night before. It's always a privilege to see a gen-you-wine, bone-uh-fide Master of the Revolver (in this case, pskys2) in action!!! Those guys are rare--kinda like giant pandas.

Got it on my calendar. This was a very fun match last year!

Kyle, I'm pretty committed to shooting my .45s in the USPSA Revolver division, but I must admit I recently picked up a kydex N-frame holster that would be Production-legal! Yep, just as Rob L. indicated, all the rotary work is done to the extractor star. The actual cylinder isn't touched (other than I improved the chamfer just a little, but that's optional), so .38 Super works just like before. For those who want to try this--go easy, and keep in mind you may be affecting the ratchet that controls timing (carry-up) if you're not careful. Without those little locator pins, the extractors on the newer guns are held in place by the fit between the outside angled edges of the star to the cylinder. On mine, the star definitely has more "wiggle" now than it had before, guess I wasn't quite careful enough--however, this particular gun tended to lock in way early anyway, so it hasn't hurt anything. I can see where another specimen with "closer" timing might have problems after cutting the star the way I did this gun. Yeah, Bjorn, I suspect you could work up a load that would be fairly accurate--the 147-gr. factory loads showed some decent potential. DougC has theorized that the longer bearing surface of the heavier bullets helps stabilize things after the bullet makes the longer jump to the forcing cone--I'll bet he's exactly right. (By the way, those cone-shaped 147-gr. bullets, both AE and WWB, drop right in easy--didn't seem to slow the reloads down one bit.) On the other hand, if I'm going to be handloading the ammo, I figure I might as well just shoot .38 Super. The real attraction to me of this 9mm "conversion" is the ability to shoot the cheap generic 9mm ammo and give my reloading elbow a rest. I can see a scenario where I might need (or choose) to buy ammo at a match destination--as long as there's a Wal-Mart around, I'm all set! I also intend to check out some of the other cheapie stuff, like Blazer and Wolf. It's all pretty much 115-gr. stuff, though, so I'll bet I wind up with accuracy results very similar to the WWB.

Aiight, boys, I got to do a little target shootin' today with my "new" 627-4 8-shot 9mm wheelgun, and here's what I learned: 1. With my arms resting across the trunk of my old Caprice, I got marginally acceptable accuracy at 15 yards--like around 2" to 3" groups, which sure doesn't seem all that great to me. Then again, they were 8-shot groups, so that makes me feel a little better--lots of times there were 5 or 6 shots grouped pretty decently with a flyer or two. Definitely none of those nice one-ragged-hole groups you like to see at that close distance, though--I'm not sure using 9mm ammo would be the best for 50-yard standards or some crap like that. 2. The WWB and AE 147-gr. TC definitely shot tighter groups than the ammo with lighter bullets, like that Rob guy said. The WW 124-gr. ball was about the same as the WWB value-pack 115-gr. stuff. I'm planning to shoot the value-pack 115-gr. though--in my mind, being able to buy ammo anywhere in the US for $10-11 per 100 rounds is the whole point of this exercise. After the paper, I played around on a 6" steel plate at 30 yards and found I had no problem ringing it 8 for 8 shooting unsupported at medium speed. 3. Recoil on all tested loads felt roughly the same. Very pleasant. Nice fast aural feedback on steel. 4. The 115-gr. value pack stuff from Wally World chronoed at a very consistent 1140 fps for 131 p.f., exactly right for ICORE or USPSA minor, in my mind anyway. I managed to not shoot the chrono. (Don't laugh, this has been an issue for me in the past...twice.) 5. Very clean--the 9mm stuff left only light grey-black ash in the usual places, that created no binding or other problems in several hundred rounds with no brushing or cleaning. Brownells moonclips all dropped in smoothly and ejected very easily (you could pretty much dump them out, barely needed to touch the ejector rod) from start to finish. Virtually no dirt under the star. 6. As the gun started getting dirty, my 5 pound DA started giving the occasional click, starting with the WWB 147-gr. for some reason, then finally got a click with the 115. Went downstairs and tweaked the action up to 6 pounds (measured on my recording RCBS trigger scale) and got perfect ignition thereafter. Now, I'd have no problem trusting it to shoot a big match, at least in terms of handling and reliability. Could've stayed lighter with the Federal AEs, of course. 7. I now have a nice start on getting my revolver trigger finger callous back where it belongs. (Apparently, I've been getting a little soft over the winter.....) Mike

A lot of people might not know that Rob V. is the zen master of the revolver. I'll never forget the day he told me the following: "See the moonclip. Be the moonclip. And if your moonclip falls, leave your anger on the ground with it."

No, I have my one prized Hearthco moonclip in its little velvet-lined box, and that's going to have to be enough for right now. I go over to the bank and take it out of the safe deposit box every now and then to marvel at its perfection and dream of the day when I can afford to buy another one to go with it. Someday my ship will come in. (Plus, the Brownells moonclips work just fine with the 9mm stuff, post-Dremel.)

Dan, a stop that is adjusted to halt trigger travel after the hammer release is just fine. But some guns are set up with rubber-tipped screws, silicone, pencil erasers, or whatever, for the purpose of actually slowing the trigger pull just before the hammer release, to aid in deliberately "staging" the trigger (pulling quickly through most of the trigger pull until just before the hammer break, then slowly and deliberately squeezing off the shot). Some of the PPC guys like this concept, but it's pretty much BS for what we do.

Wow. How frickin' easy was that? 10 minutes of buzzing around downstairs with the dremel tool last night and now my .38 Super 627-4 handles Wally-World 9mm ammo beautifully!! I have no idea of the accuracy, but I shot a dozen moonclips full of WWB 115-gr. into the semi-dark and confirmed that functioning, timing, ignition, and ejection are all perfectly fine. As long as I avoid the S&W "split-style" moonclips, they drop right in like the gun was made for 'em! I ran out today and procured some WWB and AE 147-gr. stuff, and some 124-gr. WWB. If I ever manage to see some daylight other than through my office window, I'll report back on the accuracy. Guess it took Leatham, the one shooter in the world who's not secretly afraid of us wheelgunning heavyweights, to clue us in on this little trick!

Most N-frames actually have an internal trigger stop.....it's that pin that rides inside the rebound spring. Only problem is these are never fitted correctly for DA shooting (properly fit for DA, a trigger stop will actually disable the gun's single-action capability). For years, I have made and installed my own internal stops from drill rod, it's time-consuming to get it right, lots of trial and error, disassembly and reassembly. Some guns seem to have more noticeable backlash than others. In my hands, a little trigger overtravel doesn't bother me a whole lot as long as the cylinder locks in nice and early, with what I call "plenty of pre-time." When timing gets iffy, I seem to notice backlash more, I suppose because I'm still cranking the cylinder around on its axis. (Torque, baby, torque.....!!) I never cared for the rubber-tipped stops designed for use in "staging" the trigger PPC-style, like AZshooter I like to roll the trigger right on through with no hesitation.

I like your 627 8-shot idea a lot! Go for it! (....wish I were getting a tax refund this year.....)

Sam Keen will be there shortly. Keep an eye on your front porch.

Hi AFDavis11, For a nice soft major p.f. load, you might try 4.1 gr. of Clays and a 230-gr. RNL or plated RN, it will probably make major even from a 4". If the recoil still bugs you, some of the other guys here can give you a good minor .45 load that should feel about like shooting a .22! Nice to have you shooting wheelies with us.

Jerry is using a lighter action these days. He says he's "outgrown" the need for heavy stock springs. If the action is smoothed and lightened in balanced fashion, you can reduce the weight of the trigger pull dramatically and still be able to run the gun wicked fast. For most of us, the lightened actions will be more helpful in rolling the trigger smoothly on the longer, tougher shots. Close up stuff where the fast splits come into play, it'll make little or no difference. In my view, the point of diminishing returns is reached when the gun is reaching the raw edge of ignition reliability. As I have posted elsewhere, I have seen several shooters with the super-light actions have the occasional "click" in the heat of battle. In my guns, in my hands, with my ammo, the threshold is about 5 pounds. I don't trust them any lighter. A genuine Randy hammer (instead of one of my grotesque forgeries) might allow me to take off a few more ounces from the pull. Maybe. After that, you're in reliability limbo. Every primer in every round must be seated perfectly. The brass must be consistent. The moonclips must be from the Hearthco Super-Platinum Executive Collection. The endshake must be reduced to almost nothing (which can create its own problems). And the gun must be kept squeaky clean. That's just too much fussing around for me. I need my gun to work 100% of the time--not 99%--with the large quantity of mixed .45 brass and moonclips I've accumulated over the past 18 years of shooting these things. (What can I say, I've become sorta attached to the stuff!) I don't want the stress of having to run to a safe area or hide in a porta-potty after every stage to brush out the chambers and under the star to make sure my gun will work. I want to know I can shoot a whole 12-stage 240-round match without ever brushing it once, and still have every moonclip drop in easily under pressure, and have the gun go bang every time I pull the trigger. Every time. Different shooters may have different thoughts on this, and that's cool. And I think it's great that some talented, forward-thinking folks are working to wring out the maximum technical potential from our competition revolvers. But I still say this is not an equipment race, and whatever momentary envy I might have for somebody's super-light action goes away when the buzzer goes off and the money's on the line.

The rebound spring will not have an impact on ignition reliability. If everything else is working well, and you're sure your primers are being properly seated to just below flush, then bending the mainspring a little to increase its tension should do the trick. Good luck!

Jim said he's using a "crude scale." I might just have to take my trigger pull guage up to the WI Sectional to see how much that trigger pull actually is! Seriously though, 3+ pounds is pretty frickin' light--maybe too frickin' light for most of us who aren't completely and impractically anal about our ammo and moonclips, and who aren't afraid to shoot our guns loose with major power loads year in and year out (i.e. USPSA revo division). As I have posted before, I have seen several notable shooters with those super-light actions go "click" in the middle of a major match....I won't identify them here, they know who they are. I keep mine between 5 and 6 pounds, even with the lowered hammer mass. I'd rather have a little reliability margin, and I'm very pleased with the way my actions feel. Then again, who knows, maybe I'm missing the boat!

Will do, as soon as I receive the ten cases of Federal Match hardball you're sending. Patrick Sweeney will have those right out to you. Keep an eye on your front porch.

Wow, 3+ pounds -- dude, you're in Randy-land!

There ya go! Sweeney will love it for those 75-yard international long shots he gets all worried about!

OK--excellent. Chuck, we're going to need you to shoot about 10,000 rounds through your 22-4 in fast DA mode, then report back on the peening issue. Try to get this done tonight if possible.

Hey, bring that baby back another 18" and replace the blade with a peep aperture, then you'd really have something! (Can't wait to hear the price.....)

Well now, on the S&W website under technical specs it does specifically say "blue" and "carbon steel." Of course, they don't indicate exactly which parts they're talking about.....

With the Model 22-4 on the market, the cylinders should be available from our source at the factory, presumably at a lower price than the Ti cylinders. These should be a direct swap into a newer-production 625, right? Anybody shot their 22-4 enough yet to know if the peening problem occurs in these? Waltermitty is trying out the Ti thing. I'm trying the hard-chrome route. Do we have a volunteer to be the guinea pig on the carbon-steel cylinder idea? Mike

Preliminary Follow-Up: OK, fellas, not hearing anything all that negative here I decided to give plated bullets a try. (I have used them briefly in the past in .357 and .40 calibers, but never in .45.) I've sent for dealer pricing info from Berry's and Midway, but in the meantime went ahead and bought a box of Rainier 230s on that $61/1000 deal that Midway's offering right now. Loaded a bunch with the same powder charge (4.1 of Clays) and the same seating depth--i.e. I didn't change anything on my press, just switched in the plated bullets. No problems loading. It's too blustery out there today to do any serious accuracy testing, but I believe I have determined the following: 1. My chrono tells me there is no meaningful difference in velocity between the Rainiers and the RNL I've been using. 2. I cannot tell the difference in recoil impulse between the plated and cast lead in this load. Mix 'em in the same moonclip, can't tell which is which when they go bang. 3. The Rainiers are quite a bit more accurate than the RNL in the 25-2 (but keep in mind, that gun has never done well with lead bullets, and I believe that problem is typical for the old blue 25-2s, I think they were designed with shallow rifling or something). Again, it's a cold and windy bastard out there today, so all I'm doing is aiming for the center of my little plate, then repainting it between 6-shot strings, and roughly comparing the groups. 4. The Rainiers seem to create no lead build-up on the cylinder face and around the forcing cone, and the small amount of leading in my barrel from before is pretty well gone. My conclusion is that plated bullets will definitely be an improvement in the 25-2 (which Sam will be shooting quite a bit this year). I'm looking forward to testing these in my 625 when it gets back from Ford's, and will report back on this later. Mike P.S. Dave, this old gun times well, and bench alignment is fine, but when actually shooting it the cylinder moves slightly to the left because the center-pin hole is kinda egged-out from the high mileage--this gun was quite well-used when I bought it in 1987, and it was my main pin/steel revolver for years. Can't take the action as light because primer hits tend to go a little off center, but I just sorta live with it. I've already reamed the forcing cone once, a long time ago, don't remember which degree cut I used.