bountyhunter

Here is wisdom: there will always be stupid comments since there will always be stupid people. They are just trying to flog the old dead "boycott" horse that won't run any more. Let the target do the talking. I bought a new model 66 about 2 months ago. I shot 598/600 tonight at PPC and it would have been a perfect score except for one bad round that cartwheeled into the "8" ring (but I'm not bitter).

I believe the general consensus is you move the eyes ahead to the next target the instant you break the shot at the one you are on, then bring the dot along as fast as possible and drop the hammer when it arrives (repeat procedure).

Easy question. When you rush a trigger pull (instead of squeezing it) you get a "sympathetic squeeze" of the right hand that will rotate the muzzle down and left. It is definitely from yanking the trigger. If I had a dollar for every time I've done it, I could buy Donald Trump.

That's true. The "virtual focus" point on an Ultra Dot is around 15 yards out. If your eyes are focused on the target at that range, the dot will look sharp. If you try to focus on thethe dot at front lense of the scope, it will be very blurry.

The only time you genuinely MUST be able to sight a gun with both eyes open is in self defense when threat targets must be focused on as the gun sights are aligned. One eye closed blocks too much information. As for comp shooting: I tried to cross train from right eye to left eye dominance and gave up. I don't think it's possible. I can easily sight with both eyes on the target and ignore the second peripheral gun image. I think most people can learn this. Is it an advantage? In bullseye shooting it is not. The black bull is easy to see and the second image doesn't add information. In speed shooting (multiple shots on a single small target), it helps me. I can tell exactly where the muzzle is with respct to the target so I don't have to "undershoot" and then come back up to align. In PPC two eye (target focus) helps me because the target is dark and the ten ring is only visible with direct eye focus on the target. I trade a slightly fuzzy sight picture for seeing the ten ring accurately and score higher.

Focus entirely on every shot as an individual and realize a bad one doesn't affect the others (unless you let it).

Gentlemen, there are two effects in play here: 1) Gravity. A slug traveling 1000f/s takes 150 ms to go 50 yards. In that time, it will move downward 1.1" from the initial POA. Twice as far for 100 yards. The weight of the slug does not affect how far it will drop from horizontal (just the velocity and distance travel). 2) Sighter line compared to bore. If you have a Scope whose center axis is above the bore line, that means the sight line and bore line can converge at only one point. If you "zero" at 50 yards, the POI will be a shade below POA at 25 yards, and itt will be above POA beyond 50 yards. Example: if the scope line is 2" above the bore axis and zeroed to 50 yards, at 25 yards the impact point will be one inch below the point of aim. At 75 yards, it will be 1" above the POA. The flight of the bullet is moving upward with respect to the line of sight of the scope, and crosses at only one distance (that's where it is zeroed).

The cheap aftermarket mags don't work right. The CZ-85 has a "wrap-around" trigger bow that has to clear the mag shell. The trigger on mine is pretty smooth, but they do have a long pull. You can put in a 16# hammer spring (Wolff) and the trigger gets better. Mine has a 3.5# SA pull with no trigger job.

Maybe it's not just a QC issue. The whole MIM thing was started as a way to get parts which did not need to be fitted.. the objective being to cut manufacturing costs. I suspect the expert fingers that fitted those beautiful triggers back in the early days got their walking papers.... and the new manufacturing standard is: "Does it go bang?" It is definitely not the same as it was, and it seems to be somewhat uncontrolled.

RECOIL SPRINGS: every .40 I have uses an 18 pound recoil spring. I got to believe an 8# spring is going to be way too light (and beat the hell out of your gun).

I shoot the factory Sellier + Belott 180-gr 40SW in all my .40's and the recoil seems pretty tame to me. I also have carpal-tunnel in both wrists, but do not have a problem with this ammo (as long as I use two hands). I also shoot some 180-gr reloads loaded up about the same (about 950 f/s muzzle velocity) and can't feel any difference. On the subject of CZ's: doesn't CZ make a longer barreled .40 with a really light SA trigger that's perfect for comp shooting? I recall the model is the CZ-75SA. I'd already own one if I wasn't living in Nazifornia. I recall the testers said the recoil on that one was very mild.

Maybe I'm picky, but when I went looking for a new model 66, I had to kiss a lot of toads to find the princess. I checked out maybe a dozen guns and found wide barrel cylinder gaps, gritty triggers, but most common was generally loose cylinder lockups. The one I bought had OK lockup on three cylinder tubes and wobble on the other three (not severe). Shows the extractor stars are not being well fitted.. or at all fitted. The guy at the range I belong to saw my feeler gauges aand realized I knew wht I was doing and began to speak freely. He said they have been seeing a lot of poor fit on new smith guns. I would not risk ordering one, but that's your call.

Red dot sighters are designed to have the "focus point" of the dot out at about 20 yards I think. You definitely do shoot them with both eyes open and focused on the target. That's why they make shooting so easy. Personally, I find target focused shooting to be much easier than sight-focused shooting. I think the two skills are separate, so I practice both. I have a Ruger Comp Target that has a scope mount which allows retaining the iron sights. In bullseye league, I shoot the first two targets Open (scope on) then take it off and shoot the second set of targets with the iron sights. I'm getting better: I shot a 300/299 (open) and 300/298 (sights) tonight. You can definitely master both skills and flip between them with a little practice.

Don't underestimate the amount of "flinch" (recoil anticipation, moving the gun in anticipation of firing, etc) that could be plain old bad habit. And, bad habits can be displaced by continually doing the good thing. I have been focusing on bullseye shooting with a Ruger Comp target .22 (which has negligible recoil) and is unbelieveably accurate. My shooting focus shifts completely from recoil to smooth trigger release and the new "habit" shows improved shooting in all my guns.

Don't cut any metal on sear faces of triggers or hammers of SW guns. Don't stone them and don't polish them with sandpaper. Those parts are fitted at the factory and then surface hardened. Cut through or remove much of that hardened layer and the parts are ruined. BTW: the chances of improving the trigger pull by cutting the sear faces is basically zero. That is not the surfaces to polish to get a smoother trigger. The rebound slide and mating frame surfaces are the main culprits.

Really? I didn't know that. Good to know, I thought I was strange because every body kept saying you can't do it. I guess it's lucky I started doing it before anybody told me I couldn't.

Me too. On the subject of eye dominance, I tried for some time to cross train from my natural RH eye dominance to the left eye and gave up after a hile (because my right eye is not as good). I gave up after a while. My eye left kept twitching and jerking, would not hold focus on the front sight. I must be heavily right eye dominant.

Been there, did that. It will cost almost as much as a new gun to put on a top end unless you can do the gunsmith fitting yourself.

No, it doesn't hurt the trigger job to cock the hammer with your thumb.

I have to think pulling the trigger hard and trying to get the sear to go past the "lip" on the edge of the safety (half cock) notch has got to be bad for the sear nose. If you find the hammer at half cock, the best thing to do is unload, open the slide and check clear, then drop the hammer from full cock.

This sounds a lot like the classic "forward push" in anticipation of recoil... notice I didn't say flinch. Most shooters do it to some degree or another. I know I do a little,especially when speed shooting to try to reduce muzzle rise. It's the hardest habit to break.

Quote: from 2alpha on 9:30 pm on Mar. 9, 2003 If you have a newer gun with the frame mounted firing pin you will have to use heavier hammer spring tension. The MIM parts don't polish too well either. C+S sells an extended firing pin that gives better ignition for the new frame mounted FP guns. Amen about the MIM parts.

Quote: from Rufus The Bum on 2:13 am on Mar. 9, 2003 Bountyhunter, I have a couple of questions. What weight rebound spring do you recommend for trigger jobs and, does the rebound spring weight have anything to do with the pressure in which the firing pin hits the primers? I have a Miculek spring kit in my 625 and my pull is now about 8lbs, they recommend 7lbs, but I got alot of light strikes at that weight, so I bumped it up to 8 and haven't had any problems. Ideally, I'd like it to be around 6.5-7lbs. I am slowly learning how to tune revolvers and am going to do some light polishing on mine tommorrow with some 600 and 1000 grit sandpaper. I'm wondering if a the Wolff RP mainspring along with an 11 pound rebound spring will give you reliable ignition? Whats really funny is that someone recommended putting slide-glide in the guts of your revolver and of course, I had to try it and it really impoved the overall feel of it, I'm not trying to endorse it or anything, but I really like it. Rufus I like Slide Glide (and still use it). Militec is just a shade thicker so I use it unsurfaces that get a lot of stress. Don't use grease on the hammer because it will take away hammer force. The rebound spring has nothing to do with hammer striking force. If you are getting light strikes, you have to increase the mainspring force. Get a new spring, longer starin screw, or shim under the head of the strain screw. I actually cut my RB springs down by clipping them, so I don't know the exact force. The trick is to get the mainspring force set as low as you can and get reliable ignition, then start trimming the RB spring gradually until it is at minimum force that still gives good trigger return (you judge the feel). Understand, a "cut down" RB spring is only usable with the mainspring set at that reduced force. Increase the mainspring force and you will need a stronger RB spring. That's why Wolff and Miculek sell them in matched sets. Trimming an RB spring is time consuming. I haven't tried the Miculek springs. I think the Wolff ribbed ones are dialed in just right to use with a stock strain screw and get good ignition. As for polishing: just don't touch the sear or trigger contact surfaces. Remember the hammer and trigger are surface hardened (only about .010" deep) and you can cut through it.

I do trigger setups on SW wheelguns. The wolf reduced power (ribbed) mainsprings are pretty good for minimum reliable mainspring weight. Most of the remaining trigger force reduction is achieved by trimming the rebound spring. I can get a SW down to about 5.5# DA firing reliably with good trigger return and glass smooth pull It also requires polishing the rebound slide faces, frame surfaces, and a few other things. Just putting in a wolf RP mainspring and rebound spring and greasing the hell out of the works with Militec grease will give you a pretty good trigger (maybe 6 - 7#).

Quote: from talon on 10:42 pm on Mar. 7, 2003 How common is it for folks to see both the target and the front sight in sharp focus at the same time ? One eye focused on the target and the other on the front sight ? Near as I can tell, I'm the only one and it is only possible through the magic of optics. I am nearsighted and have a full distance prescription in my left (target eye) lense and an "intermediate scrip in my right (sight) eye. I also use a Merit sighter to clarify the right eye so I see both the sights and target pretty clear with my eyes relaxed at "distant" focus. So with both eyes relaxed to distance focus, I see a clear target in the left eye and a clear sight picture in the right eye which appears superimposd over the target image. I shot with one-eye closed, focuse the dominant eye on the front sight for most of my life but using both eyes gives me better scores and I just seem to know where the center of the black on the target is betterwith more accuracy.