justaute

Mike...I think it might have a "few" slivers of improvement. In short, we'll just have to agree to disagree. To avoid digressing too much from this thread, I'll limit my comments to this one last posting. As someone who has experience in management consulting, corporate investment & restructuring, and non-profit corporate boards, I think USPSA needs to take an inventory of what it has, what it wants to accomplish, and then build a roadmap to achieve it. I believe USPSA's ability to execute operationally is quite deficient. Given limited resources, organizations need to plan, plan early, and then plan to execute. Just my two pesos worth of opinion. *** Again, I want to give props Troy and David for pulling together the Production Nationals with limited resources. Nicely done. *** USPSA can be so much more. As a relative new-comer, I really want it to succeed. Nonetheless, I'm not necessarily sanguine about it. I think we are seeing very nice improvement from USPSA in all those areas.

Agreed. Troy, David, et al, did a terrific job putting the match together with limited time and resource. USPSA needs better strategic planning, improved operations, and thoughtful leadership.

LOL...I know you have at least one 9mm 1911 that should serve you well in this match.

Jake...logic, common sense, and management competence are certainly nice.

I have the best grips, but CZC doesn't make them anymore.

Agreed. I think common sense dictates most forms of deviation such as this. I'd submit many of the examples raised in this thread, and what I have personally witnessed, are not in accordance with the spirit of 8.2.2.

Hear, hear.

Agreed. Strader does deserve a lot of credit, akin to his organization of 2013 Production Nationals.

Step up? Definitely should. However, how does USPSA step up when its current standing is not even adequate? Just look at the organizational support for Production Nationals. I started shooting USPSA 2.5 years go, which is just after I shot my first pistol. I got hooked. Fast-forward to today, I am quite disappointed with the trajectory of USPSA as an organization. Fortunately, I'm sufficiently healthy to play several other sports and still compete at a relatively high level. If things don't improve, I'll just allocate more time/money/effort to those other sports. As someone who has significant management experience in corporate operations, restructuring, and investment, my assessment of USPSA is, well, that it leaves a lot to be desired.

I have here in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area....a result of both what 3-gun has to offer and organization's push. I'm a pistol guy, but I think USPSA is staid and unimaginative.

Assuming WSB calls for rule #8.2.2, then no.

Let's not talk about Tori or anyone else as that will get this thread closed. In short, I believe anyone who has support hand/arm that far in front of the body is not in a legal position and should not be allowed to start the COF. And, yes, she has corrected her stance as that can be viewed in a couple of her nationals videos. The reason of my posting the video-scenario was to generate a discussion for ruling-interpretation and consistency. I have heard people who don't think the starting position, per USPSA rules, is a big deal. If we don't have a common, at least relatively, interpretation of a rule, then we can't consistently enforce that rule. If that's the case, then let's just get rid of rules.

What is this USPSA Production Nationals? I have never heard about it nor has any organizer actively promote it, to my knowledge. Is it like a 3-Gun Nation that I see and read about everywhere? I have heard of US IPSC Nationals. I heard its organizer(s) run other major shooting matches at the same location and many competitors, including those from Europe, want to attend.

Paul...terrific work, as always. I believe your work creates a lot of goodwill for USPSA and I'm hopeful it's not all for naught.

Black Ice is now Production-legal. The only caveat is, if you use drop-offset paddle, to check whether you meet the 2" inner-belt-to-gun clearance. FWIW...my first Black Ice was cut too low, but Blade-tech replaced it for free.

Y'all need to stop asking for Prod Nationals information as all match details will be disseminated on the first day of shooting. Be very, very careful, the mods and the USPSA-power are watching you. Do not ever question USPSA management.

You're a good man. Though, I will add that I do believe in some subjective latitude, as mentioned earlier. People are built differently. That said, significant bent-arm or hand(s) in front of body just aren't cutting it to me. As you said, "what's fair is fair..." Obsequious behavior is not in my nature.

And I would not be surprised by that response. Hey, if a few of the elite USPSA shooters are doing it, then it'd be safe to assume that many other shooters would do so. Many shooters want to find ways, properly or not, to speed-up their draw by a tenth or two.

Therein lies the problem -- subjective interpretation. In the subject video, I see the shooter's arm/hand position much more than being tense. First, I stipulate that there should be some latitude for each shooter as we all have different physical-built. I have seen many shooters who severely bend their arm at the elbow and have their strong-hand very close to the grip. I would not interpret that as "hanging naturally", tense or not, at all.

Interesting, I guess.

Assuming USPSA # 8.2.2 (i.e. "...with arms hanging naturally by the sides.").

Preamble: The shooting scenario is not a USPSA match and I am not implying anything other than using the video as a visual-aid to complement my question. The subject question has nothing to do with the shooter's shooting ability. This post is solely focused on his strong-hand/arm position prior to drawing. Question: So, as an RO, would you begin the COF given the shooter's strong-hand/arm position? Assuming WSB of USPSA Rule #8.2.2 starting position. See 0:42 and 0:55 of the video. <iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/7ZeChW4VFOU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

If nothing else, nice work for trying to help both the shooter and the CRO. Here are a few more thoughts. 1. CZ Custom is not a manufacturer. Even if CZ/CZUSA made the gun, that doesn't make it production legal. There is also "SP-01" SAO (single action) -- should it be Production legal? 2. The CRO should have access to approved list. 3. If the shooter is shooting a major match, he should know better. If not, well, as has been said, "you can't teach common sense and you can't fix stupid." 4. In regard to your Stock 2 example, I think most people wouldn't know whether a replaced hammer is production-legal; however, in this hobby/sport, I would think integrity should count for something. Nevertheless, in my 2.5 years of shooting USPSA, I have seen and heard too many cheating stories.

Incompetent CRO and cheating shooter in USPSA....impossible.

If they wanted/needed help, they can ask. Communicate, manage, and administer are all verbs.