2MoreChains
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Posts posted by 2MoreChains
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Jp 14.5". Love it. If it wasn't a Jp I would go with qc10
How about a QC10 lower and JP 14.5" bbl?
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Thanks ^ that's what I needed to know.
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Hey guys, quick question:
For those of you submitting SC "classifier" scores to USPSA, are you generating the ACTIVITY/CLASSIFIER REPORT from Practiscore and then uploading it to SCSA's website under Club Resources>Post/Edit Match Results? Then does it prompt you to pay the activity fee?
-this looks very similar to the way we upload the Activity/Classifiers for a USPSA match. Is so?
Thx
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HQ could help mitigating the overcrowding in certain local areas by getting more affiliations going. Maybe provide special incentives to attract clubs holding other shooting sport matches?
For example, in DFW area there are 3 clubs holding once-a-month USPSA matches, while there are 5 or 6 clubs holding IDPA weekly (some clubs hold up to 3 IDPA matches per week) matches. Can HQ figure out how to attract those clubs to also hold USPSA matches?
I see this more as a local problem, maybe the SC could get involved in to provide advice and help out but I don't see this as HQ's role. If matches in a particular town/metro area are at or exceeding capacity but there are other clubs in the area that can host... Seems to me burden is on the local people who are affected by the over-capacity at the existing clubs to step up and try and get something going at one or more of the non-USPSA affiliated clubs.
If those IDPA clubs are willing to share equipment (target stands, props, steel) then most of the heavy lifting is already done. After that it's a matter of finding several people who will take the lead to run the matches, submit your affiliation paperwork, pay your fee and drive on. Now if it was a brand new club getting started that had to shell out $$ for targets, props, steel, storage, etc... Then I understand how it can be daunting, but it can be done. Saw it happen with 2 clubs in my section in the last 3-4 years where they went from zero to being able to host a section match.
When we hit capacity with our weekday outlaw steel match we started offering a second day during the week. That helped take the pressure off, but it doubled our staff requirement. Fortunately God loves a volunteer and we have them.
Grassroots man, lead up. Don't wait for the gubmint to provide a handout.
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If a single stack (or production) shooter loads from his front pocket he gets sent to open. Too many rounds in the mag - sent to open, etc...
Where does the PCC shooter get sent to? Do they get sent to open as well?
No, they get sent to new jersey.
LOL!
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No. I think USPSA's model of not requiring membership to shoot L1 is better than the other shooting game that requires membership after your second match.
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If approved, I have no intention of changing the way I design stages anymore than I don't design stages to challenge the Open guys at the expense of the iron sight guys. Nor do I see dumbing down stages. Tight quarters, hard leans, SHO/WHO... It's all part of the fun IMO. There has been some chatter about this at my club. There's been interest, but also a lot of questions. Most of the concerns are along the lines of "how are PCCs going to ____?" But those we'll have to wait to see what DNROI/BoD comes up with.
But to the OP's original question:
-Rules like 8.2.3 will need some sort of provision for PCC to be able to start in hand (low-ready or port-arms).
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The desire is to shoot PCC in a USPSA match, not change matches.
That pretty much sums it up for me as well. Well said.
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I don't recommend sweeping him however...
As opposed to...
...the people you do recommend sweeping?
Old joke. About 3 pages back...
Yes, I was aware of it. As you and I have worked together, I thought I'd take the opportunity to reply with an amusing (to me) and somewhat rehtorical question.
So very much of this thread (not you) has been a mind-numbing waste. Disappointing.
Respectfully,
ac
Oh, I don't know about that... Some good discussion, some amusing back and forth, some different perspectives to consider... In other words: Ops normal on Benos!
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I don't recommend sweeping him however...
As opposed to...
...the people you do recommend sweeping?
Old joke. About 3 pages back...
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Sweet!
Sounds like sour grapes to me.
That is great news!It seems I've seen this same old rhetoric being preached over and over again on why something shouldn't be, from 8 Round Revolvers, to CO, and now PCC. There is too much redundancy in this thread and I'm afraid we'll just keep going in circles of subjective arguments. What we do know is the DNROI has been tasked to work up a set of rules for a possible PCC provisional division and to have it ready by the next board meeting, which should be in March. Many PCC events USPSA, Steel Challenge, or OUTLAW have been held plenty times around the country without issue, and even some USPSA Match directors have stated they allowed PCC to shoot in a match and had no issues.
I'll just wait it out, and send objective input for PCC to DNROI.
And Cha-lee if you don't want to run PCC once approved that's fine, that's why I also have a pistol. But I can almost guarantee it will be offered at WPGC
Yay!
" my team is winning"
Naw, Ultimo has seen the light and is now walking down the righteous path of pew pew pew.
I don't recommend sweeping him however...
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Sounds like sour grapes to me.
That is great news!It seems I've seen this same old rhetoric being preached over and over again on why something shouldn't be, from 8 Round Revolvers, to CO, and now PCC. There is too much redundancy in this thread and I'm afraid we'll just keep going in circles of subjective arguments. What we do know is the DNROI has been tasked to work up a set of rules for a possible PCC provisional division and to have it ready by the next board meeting, which should be in March. Many PCC events USPSA, Steel Challenge, or OUTLAW have been held plenty times around the country without issue, and even some USPSA Match directors have stated they allowed PCC to shoot in a match and had no issues.
I'll just wait it out, and send objective input for PCC to DNROI.
And Cha-lee if you don't want to run PCC once approved that's fine, that's why I also have a pistol. But I can almost guarantee it will be offered at WPGC
Yay!
" my team is winning"
Naw, Ultimo has seen the light and is now walking down the righteous path of pew pew pew.
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No one said anything about different fault lines. No one is saying PCCs will run a different match. PCCs only shoot against other PCCs. If the rules are the same in the division, it doesn't matter if a production shooter uses weak hand only and a PCC shooter uses weak side only because they are not shooting against each other.
If you want to be technical about it, with rule differences across all 7 divisions, there are already 7 different matches going on simultaneously.
You are missing the point that certain shooting challenges presented in handgun matches may require a physical position or gun handling scenario that can not be done with a PCC.
Charlie, I get what you're saying and am trying to envision a legal pistol stage that cannot be shot with a PCC. Can you give us an example?
I dabble a little in 3-gun but by no means do I consider myself an expert rifle shooter. That said, I feel like I can still shoot my PCC one-handed and supported (butt stock tucked into my shoulder) or even one-handed and unsupported (butt stock not touching shoulder). Granted I shoot better with both hands on the gun and shouldered, but then again I shoot my pistol better two-handed as well.
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I'm curious about this as well. Weather permitting I'm going to setup a stage in the pistol bay where we have a tree and then run a rope over a branch and then try shooting some targets with one hand holding the rope and the other firing my rifle one handed. I'll try this SHO and WHO. I'll let you know how it goes after the experiment.In the examples I provided, it would have been impossible for a PCC to shoot with two hands on the gun. The discussion now becomes, is it safe to shoot a rifle with one hand?
I gave this a try last Sunday. No tree, no rope, but I leaned around the right side of a barricade and shot one handed with the buttstock to my shoulder. Then I ran 8' transitioning to the left and did the same with weak hand/shoulder from the other side of the barricade.
Both times I had my off hand raised (as if asking for permission from teacher to go to the bathroom) as if to simulate holding open a prop or whatever. Bottom line: I shot my PCC one handed.
It seemed to work out ok for me.
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Ultimo, have you ever been muzzled at a pistol match? I have. Cops weren't called, no one was prosecuted, and no one resorted to physical violence, as I believe you are intimating with your last couple posts. If so, which did you do, call the cops or hand out "consequences"?
Yes I have. And there were consequences. The offending competitor was disqualified from the match. As the handgun rules addressed the issue.
What I'm saying is if you win and get a "dead stick" "flag your rifle and do as you like rule" I am not gonna stand for it. I am pretty confidant in my knowledge of my states legal statutes, and I don't have to put up with guys pointing rifles at me without recourse. Assuming you get your way and get USPSA to look the other way in the name of shooting AR's at pistol matches.
As far as handing out consequences, yes I will, totally within the rule of law. Now if you want to sign a waiver and find a quiet place to sort it out, I'm super good with that too. But let's be real, that don't happen anymore.
Earlier when I suggested chamber flags I guess I should have clarified that even tho the gun is flagged people still need to be mindful and responsible for the direction they point their muzzle. The way I envision it is once the chamber flag is inserted the shooter still has to keep it pointed up or down until it's cased/bagged/secured on their kart. Come out to Parma sometime for their monthly 3-gun matches. Guns are carried uncased to the pre-load or staging tables all the time and nobody that I've seen ever gets "muzzled".
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-30 Carbine, has almost the same ballistic profile as a .357 Mag. So should also be allowed.
Mike Foley said No to 30 Carbine on the USPSA forum.
If you are bagging it, you bag it immediately after the unload and show clear. It is no different than how most handle rimfire carbines in steel challenge. You either rack it on your cart, or you bag it.
Only problem with that idea is that you typically end the stage at a position other than where you started.
Then you clear it, put the flag in it, and walk back to the start of the stage to bag it.
See my previous post.
"Flag" means nothing to me.
Nor does a chamber flag exist anywhere in my states criminal statutes. You point a gun at someone, loaded or not "chamber flag" or not you just broke the law. Period.
You point it at me, "flag" or not you are gonna have consequences.
It's a bummer this debate has come to this, but oh well. Im not going anywhere and I'm not gonna let anyone put me at risk for a game. Want to add a division, perhaps you should have had a little respect. Can jam it, and see what you get.
There must be dozens of arrests daily at the public shooting ranges and gun shops in Idaho.
Only on Mondays...and it's usually because there was only one box of .22LR left on the shelf.
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I bow to your ingenuity. But I still want to see you do that with a pelican case.
A guy is going to come in with an inexpensive PCC and a pelican case?
Sure why not? People will use all manner of cases to carry their guns in. I once had a new shooter show up to a SC match with a Ruger rifle slung over her shoulder. 5 mins with a cardboard box, a knife, and some duct tape and she was headed to her first stage.
But I suspect PCCs are gonna have a pretty wide range from the "inexpensive" to "decidedly less so".
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Just run the straps through your arm. Not that hard.
Wow I must be like a super RO being able to handle a timer and a simple pistol bag on my arm as I run with a shooter. Lol. But a chamber flag is a good option.I agree, RO shouldn't have to carry the shooter's bag/case. They need to be unencumbered while running shooters.
Pat
You balance a gun case on your arm while running? Cool dude. Pics or it didn't happen.
Pat
I bow to your ingenuity. But I still want to see you do that with a pelican case.
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Wow I must be like a super RO being able to handle a timer and a simple pistol bag on my arm as I run with a shooter. Lol. But a chamber flag is a good option.I agree, RO shouldn't have to carry the shooter's bag/case. They need to be unencumbered while running shooters.
Pat
You balance a gun case on your arm while running? Cool dude. Pics or it didn't happen.
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I agree, RO shouldn't have to carry the shooter's bag/case. They need to be unencumbered while running shooters.
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We already use a multi-step verification process for ensuring the gun is inert before declaring Range is Clear so people can go down range. Shooter checks, RO checks, and finally the shooter pulls the trigger to drop the hammer (assuming semi-auto).
A gun that gone thru all that is a safe gun, no? The chamber flag would be step 4 and is just a visual indicator for everyone else. So IMO once the above has been done, bagged or not bagged shouldn't matter for everyone to go down range and start scoring/resetting.
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What's wrong with inserting a chamber flag at ICHD in order to declare Range is Clear? Then carry it muzzle down to where your bag/case/kart is, where it remains until you get the make ready for your next stage. Wouldn't that satisfy the most Fudd-ite of clubs? I know it would be sufficient for mine.
How about we just bag/ case the long gun at the line?
Just like we do at SC.
You could, and that would make sense for the stand and shoot short courses. But at the end of a long COF where you may be on the other side of the stage from where your case/bag is it would slow things down to walk the shooter back to the start to clear him/her. Yer all about time savings and not upgefugging the match flow, right?
IMO, it'd go faster if you ULASC-ICHD and insert a chamber flag where ever you finish the stage. That way the RO can call Range is Clear sooner and get to scoring sooner. You then take your inert gun back to wherever your case/bag/kart is and put it away.
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What's wrong with inserting a chamber flag at ICHD in order to declare Range is Clear? Then carry it muzzle down to where your bag/case/kart is, where it remains until you get the make ready for your next stage. Wouldn't that satisfy the most Fudd-ite of clubs? I know it would be sufficient for mine.
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So Amigo, what if at our local matches we were to restrict registration to just one gun, keep using the same type of stages that we currently shoot (i.e. not biased towards any one division), require use of a bag or rack instead of allowing somebody to sling it Timmy-style while not shooting, and basically treat PCC as just one more division just like we would if a wheel gun showed up in Nampa or Emmett for a change. How 'bout then are we still killing off your mojo?DERP,
20 minutes late, changing diapers is killing me.
Hey guys I get it that growth is a good thing.
This is just a big step... We are gonna change the fundamental structure of the matches, going from pistol shooting, to multi/ rifle shooting. Perhaps before you take a big steamer on the faces of guys who are into the sport as it currently exists, just because you have/ want a 9mm SBR.....
I think there are maybe something like 3 people in the Treasure Valley who will jump on the PCC bandwagon, maybe a few more later on if it takes off. But I don't have any intention of turning our monthly matches into something they are not. But if there was enough interest to hold a PCC-only match I'd probably entertain that idea as well -provided there are enough people.
PS, you know you want one.
As I'm sure you have observed, I think rifle shooting is best left to a separate match. My primary concern is the incongruancies between the current USPSA rules and the accommodations that would have to be made to allow rifles at an existing pistol competition format.
Now that said, if the marching orders are to include rifles, the approach you have put forth makes sense.
First off, having competitors choose, and shoot only one division makes sense and fits with how we do business.
As far as the operations of a match, I just hope we have a clear set of rules (expectations) to meld pistol and rifle operations together.
Thanks for the questions, and while I'm happy to engage in online bar fights, when this all gets ironed out, I am gonna support your leadership of the great Idaho section!
And yes I do want one!
I knew it, you're a closet PCC'er. It's OK to covet thy neighbor's gun (well, maybe not YOUR neighbor since I know who you live next to...).
I was not a big fan of the people shooting multiple guns at our SC matches since it slowed things down for the one-gunners, but that is a MD decision at Level 1 matches. A few years ago I said you could shoot a second gun at the end of season SC match but only after you finished shooting the first gun. That caused some grumbling, but we made it stick. I've tried to give the current MDs free reign on how they run their SC matches now, and if they want to allow 2 guns at registration that's their decision as MD. I know they are monitoring the match flow and are cognizant of what is going on since they are also out there shooting and trying to get done before dark.
I'm pretty confident that whatever NROI comes up with as far as rulebook modifications will be common sense and be safe. I'm also confident that they will be considering match flow and take into account the rules will have to be applicable to all 400-ish USPSA clubs around the country.
As far as stage design getting biased towards PCC, I doubt that will happen any more than we don't bias stages towards the other divisions. Yeah there is the 8-rnd rule so lo-cap guys don't have to do standing reloads (unless they miss) but I don't see stage designers suddenly adding 50 yd plate racks or hard partials on swingers (or at least anymore than some might be doing now) to challenge the PCC'ers. I think most stage designers cater to average shooter with regard to difficulty, and club matches attract shooters based on the quality of their stages -so it's in the MDs interest to make sure they keep offering pistol-sequel stages.
Or at least that is how I plan to approach PCC inclusion into our matches.
What devise is best for PractiScore?
in USPSA/IPSC Shooting
Posted
Been using a Gen 2 iPad as the master and Nook NSTs for the squads for the last 2-3 years. This year upgraded to refurbished iPad Gen 2s all around. So far so good. We'll see how it goes in the bright sunlight of summer but the Nooks are a PITA in the cold and when it rains.