2MoreChains
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Posts posted by 2MoreChains
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DERP,
20 minutes late, changing diapers is killing me.
Hey guys I get it that growth is a good thing.
This is just a big step... We are gonna change the fundamental structure of the matches, going from pistol shooting, to multi/ rifle shooting. Perhaps before you take a big steamer on the faces of guys who are into the sport as it currently exists, just because you have/ want a 9mm SBR.....
So Amigo, what if at our local matches we were to restrict registration to just one gun, keep using the same type of stages that we currently shoot (i.e. not biased towards any one division), require use of a bag or rack instead of allowing somebody to sling it Timmy-style while not shooting, and basically treat PCC as just one more division just like we would if a wheel gun showed up in Nampa or Emmett for a change. How 'bout then are we still killing off your mojo?
I think there are maybe something like 3 people in the Treasure Valley who will jump on the PCC bandwagon, maybe a few more later on if it takes off. But I don't have any intention of turning our monthly matches into something they are not. But if there was enough interest to hold a PCC-only match I'd probably entertain that idea as well -provided there are enough people.
PS, you know you want one.
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I primarily use Tripp mags in .40 and 9mm and have had good results from them. Aaron at Tripp just refurbished 7 of my mags after diagnosing a problem that I've been having with them due to spreading feedlips, free of charge. That kind of CS deserves brand loyalty.
But finding the right mag also depends on what magwell you plan to use. For example, Dawson ICE magwell (no-gap) requires a certain basepad (that Dawson conveniently sells). Some of the deeper magwells (Techwell XT, Dawson ICE-gap) require taller basepads in the .500-.625" range. Typical mags with .325" basepads work fine with the smaller magwells such as the S&A or Techwell SP.
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I think there have been some good take-always in amongst all the chatter. For me (as a MD, stage designer, and guy who schedules matches at my local club):
1. Don't bias stage design towards PCC (or any division for that matter).
2. MD discretion on allowing somebody to shoot multiple divisions for score at a Lvl 1, or just pick one and shoot it. Personally I lean toward the latter.
3. PCC in case or bag or cart while not shooting. Ix-nay on slinging it while not shooting since we wouldn't want to muzzle Ultimo-hombre's sexy knees... Or take a page from 3gun and setup a table on the side of the bay pointing into the berm where everyone can stage their PCCs. Seems like a non-issue.
4. Side matches or dedicated matches are possible, but it's a question of numbers and whether you have enough to justify doing them. With only a handful of interested people, piggy-backing onto a pistol match seems to make the most sense.
5. Instead of re-writing a bunch of rules, I think it would be easier to write in exceptions to the key rules where PCC differs from pistol.
Example: For 8.2.3 (the rule that says cannot touch gun or loading devices after standby and before the start signal) write in "8.2.3.1 PCC may be held in one or two hands, depending on other requirements of the WSB."
For 8.3.7 (the ICHDH command), add "8.3.7.5 PCC -release bolt, pull trigger. Once verified that chamber is empty, insert chamber flag or secure in case."
etc.
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Maybe buy a 2011 frame and build it to work with this top end, so I would have a single stack and double stack option set up the same, depending on the game. or is that just crazy talk?
I have a 2011 and 1911 frame that share the same 9mm slide top end. In 2011 configuration it is my 3-gun pistol and in 1911 it is what I shoot in USPSA SSD. It was a project(s) that evolved over time which helped to spread the cost out. Local gunsmith set up both frames to work with the same slide.
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With the Techwell XT or SP it depends on the mag if you have to do some trimming to make them work. With CMC mags I had to trim, with Tripp of Wilson ETM I did not.
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Shoot a bunch of different guns first before deciding. Its ok to covet thy neighbors gun.
But for me the big question is: Do you reload already? If not, I would continue shooting the gun I already have and invest in a good press.
The gun is the cheap part. Keeping it fed is the expensive part IMO.
i do have a great press I drank the blue kool-aid a few years ago and got me a dillion 650 with case feeder. I have a few different guns but there are so many to choose from.
Then you're set! In that case if you're looking for a Production gun I would add to the suggestions about trying a CZ SP-01 Shadow. Personally I never need to activate the CZs safety and more or less just use the safety as a ledge to rest my thumb. I shot a Glock 34 in Production for a number of years... then one day I tried a SP-01 Shadow and haven't looked back. Tho these days I am shooting SS more than anything else.
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Shoot a bunch of different guns first before deciding. Its ok to covet thy neighbors gun.
But for me the big question is: Do you reload already? If not, I would continue shooting the gun I already have and invest in a good press.
The gun is the cheap part. Keeping it fed is the expensive part IMO.
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Installation is not the problem. Removing the rear sights installed by the factory is! Some of those buggers are really in there.
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I'm in the "it's a game, play by their rules" camp. For the most part the rules don't bother me until you get a few new shooters on your squad and you have to explain why they just got assessed a procedural... There are a few that border on the absurb.
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ETR7....see that is what I'm talking about. I've never heard of that one. If you guys can use it to practice with......I can use it almost full time. lol
I think if you do a search on this forum you'll probably find more users of ETR7 with some load recommendations. I use it for 9mm, .40, and .45 with no issues. Here's the interesting part: the same adjustment on my powder measurer throws the same weight of ETR7 as it does for VV N320, i.e. 4.3 gr of ETR7 is same as 4.3 gr of N320. The ETR7 throw may be a touch heavy, but since it's my practice round I don't really care. Chrono testing, both powders with a 125 gr Leatherhead RN are in the 130-132 PF range and the Std Devs are about the same (i.e. Good).
The above is nice when I switch powders since I don't have to worry about adjusting the powder measurer, me being lazy and all.
I get mine from Leatherhead Bullets since those guys are local to me. LH gets it from some stateside distributor (IIRC, ETR7 is made by some Spanish company).
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See if you can find ETR7. Last time I bought some it was <$20/lb and shoots it seems comparable in consistency, burn rate, cleanliness as some of the higher priced powders. I now shoot ETR7 for practice and save the boutique stuff for matches. It's good for 9, 40, and 45.
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I put around 200rds through my RRA with my 24C without issue but that is with a none ramped bolt.
Thx for the feedback!
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Has anybody tried the Hiperfire 24 trigger/hammers with the ramped 9mm AR bolts? I put my 9mm PCC upper on top of a lower that has the Hiperfire 24C installed and it fired, however I only fired a few shots to see if the 24C would function. It did, but wanted to see if anybody has any extended experience with this combo before buying a Hiperfire 24 3gun trigger for my home built 9mm PCC. 9mm bolt is a ramped CMMG. Thx
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Build one from parts? Quarter Circle 10 makes some nice dedicated lowers, for either Colt or Glock mags.
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I went with 1/2x36 and picked up the JP Comp and Barrel. Prices for those items aren't too bad for a JP parts. For the barrel, you have to factor in the price the color though. If you are ok with the machine finished look, the JP barrel is very competitively priced.
The JP barrel and comp is on my short list. Thx
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I'm in the same boat. I have a PA micro dot and a C-more with railway mount that I'll probably experiment with to see which one I like better.
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I'm in the process of putting together a 9mm AR and this thread has me looking at different muzzle devices. I haven't purchased the barrel yet, but looks like I can get one either in 1/2x28 or 1/2x36 thread. The options for 1/2x28 seem to be limited to A2 bird cage flash hiders, but if I go 1/2x36 the options open up to include flash hiders as well as comps. Any suggestions?
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Aren't 1x dots and irons already on an equal footing in Multigun's Limited division?
Yes (both are division compliant).
Sounds like a compelling reason to lump PCCs in the same division regardless of the sights used, provided having a ported muzzle device/flash hider/comp on the end of the barrel doesn't change things...
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Aren't 1x dots and irons already on an equal footing in Multigun's Limited division?
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Looking good Eric. I had a 9mm built last summer. STI slide and frame, and had the slide tri-topped with a french border milled in right at the lower angle of the tri-top (just because). Mine weighs in at 42.5 oz with a Tripp mag even with the steel MSH from S&A. Originally I tried to order their aluminum MSH but they were out of stock. But seeing as I make weight with the the current setup, I'll probably stay with the steel MSH.
I've been shooting 9mm in SS for most of the fall and I kind of like it. I also have my 1911 in .40 and one in .45 when I want to shoot major PF, but at the local level I'm finding the extra 2 rnds is nice to have and the recoil is stupid soft.
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I just started using them (Cabelas had a pretty good deal on them). Plan right now is to use the S&Bs for practice rounds and save my CCI primers for matches. So far so good in a 1911.
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Thanks for posting Pat! Happy holidays!
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125 gr Leatherhead RN
4.3 gr N320 or 4.3 gr ETR7 (measures the same and PF is +/- 1 or 2)
1.135"
130-132 PF
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Thanks for sharing Zack. I guess now we wait and see what the BoD comes up with after their in person meeting.
So if I am reading it correctly, you proposed adding 2 divisions to SCSA: PCC Open (dot) and PCC Irons (or something like that)?
Pistol Caliber Carbine. (PCC)
in USPSA/IPSC Rules
Posted
Prior to CO becoming a thing, I think I saw maybe 3 of them in the wild. 6 months later we have 2 CO division shooters at our matches and we support their participation at our matches alongside the more popular Limited and Production divisions.
Based on what I read about clubs already offering PCC at their local matches it sure seems like there are enough people out there looking for a place to play with them, but not enough to justify their own match. I've been trying to get a sense for how many people at my club would be into this and the numbers so far are pretty low. So piggy-backing them onto a USPSA match seems like a better option than staying after the main match or finding a free weekend to hold a PCC match.
Those clubs already doing it are probably applying some common-sense modifications to accommodate the PCCs, such as table starts if hands need to be somewhere specific, low-ready or port-arms for the default start position, safe carrying when coming to the line, securing the PCC when not shooting... None of which seem very difficult to me or for match management.
Full disclosure, yeah I have a PCC and enjoy shooting it. I'll probably shoot it at matches If I get the chance, but I will also continue to be a pistol shooter as well.