Chuck Anderson

Thumb rest yes, box no. I don't see ever using a box for Limited. Waaaaaay too many guns out there that won't fit and nowhere for them to go if we added that provision. To be honest I seriously doubt there will be a ton of "new" guns on the market. Might be a few more SightTrackers. I really doubt you'll see a move to 6.5 or 7" guns. Just too much slide. But who knows. You'll still be able to use any current gun you want. It just opened it up for folks who want to screw around with new stuff.

The caliber would be the other difference. Primarily .40, although you can shoot whatever you want. Just might not be Major.

The guns in Limited are already, "super expensive". Except when Vogel or Sevigny come in and beat everyone with a $500.00 gun. The problem I had with the Limited rules prior (And I was the one who asked for this rule change at the previous BOD meeting) is that the 500 unit rule was impossible to police and had seemingly broken down in it's application. It was originally intended to keep a manufacturer from making a gun on a limited level for it's Corporate USPSA/IPSC team. But also refusing to sell that fancy technology to the general shooting public, therefore giving that team an unfair advantage. Frankly there aren't any manufacturers dumb enough to invest that much money into tech, then not sell it to anyone. What we ended up with are rulings which allowed manufacturers/competitors to put 6" slides on guns that had never been made with them. Heck in calibers the company never even made the gun in. (Para, Springfield). But where you could only use certain calibers/lengths of barrels in other applications. (SightTracker). It got to the point where it was very difficult to figure out what was legal and what wasn't. There is no database, like the Production list, where shooters can go and see if their gun is legal. I know of at least a couple people who built 6" SightTrackers only to find out they weren't legal after the fact. Some major compononents, barrels, were subject to a requirement that 500 complete guns be made with them, while smaller parts were okay with just 500, or none of them made. I couldn't keep track of the rule and to expect any shooter to understand it was a bit much. Open and Limited have been the race Divisions of USPSA for many years. This will allow some innovation in Limited. Right now the investment for a company to bring a new product to market is significant. Take the cheapest 2011 factory gun at $1600.00. Make 500 of those assuming your product isn't that expensive to begin with. You're at $800,000.00. Before the product was even legal for anyone to use. As far as bringing this closer to IPSC, I'm not sure what you mean by that. IPSC allows most of the guns USPSA does, as long as they fit in a box. I doubt most of the "new" guns people will start making will fit into that box. I'm not sure if you mean you think USPSA should bring their rules more in line with IPSC, or if you inaccurately think this rule will.

I'd hold out on a resopnse from them. They have always been very responsive whenever I called or emailed. They may be shut down for the holidays. A lot of firearms companies close between Xmas and New Years for inventory etc. They are also probably prepping for the SHOT Show. They will get back to you I'm sure. At least you got yours, I'm still waiting on my order from SHOT Show this year. You make a good point about it being the holidays. You ordered one from shot show last year? Was that not 11 months ago? Yeah they've shipped a bunch of the standard barrels but the threaded ones I want are a bit harder to come by apparently.

I had to work with some clubs on this one. They actually DQ'd a shooter not long ago for doing this. The club had announced during the shooters meeting that you couldn't drive down steel. Unfortunately the shooter, a notoriously fast on the trigger GM, couldn't hold back round 2. In fact he shot them so fast the steel was still straight up when the second round hit, (I watched the video). The club was concerned about ricochets leaving the range. I don't have it available any more, but the shooter actually sent me a study that was done to determine safe angles for steel and distance from the berm. We came up with several options for the range, rather than an illegal rule. It all came down to stage design. Placement of poppers right up against the berm, Forward Falling Poppers, steel plates, not using RFP's as a means to activate drop turners or other targets. Basically taking away the reasons people try to drive down poppers. That combined with better placement on the bay eliminates concerns about the steel. Chuck If I may ... Something I have only seen on rare occasion here in the States, but rather more commonly at large international (and/or indoor range) matches: It is possible to construct a large shroud around a Popper such that splatter and/or richochets are trapped/deflected rather than leaving the range. Just one more tool to consider. Mike Thanks for reminding me. I saw those down in Ecuador and forgot about them.

I'd hold out on a resopnse from them. They have always been very responsive whenever I called or emailed. They may be shut down for the holidays. A lot of firearms companies close between Xmas and New Years for inventory etc. They are also probably prepping for the SHOT Show. They will get back to you I'm sure. At least you got yours, I'm still waiting on my order from SHOT Show this year.

I had to work with some clubs on this one. They actually DQ'd a shooter not long ago for doing this. The club had announced during the shooters meeting that you couldn't drive down steel. Unfortunately the shooter, a notoriously fast on the trigger GM, couldn't hold back round 2. In fact he shot them so fast the steel was still straight up when the second round hit, (I watched the video). The club was concerned about ricochets leaving the range. I don't have it available any more, but the shooter actually sent me a study that was done to determine safe angles for steel and distance from the berm. We came up with several options for the range, rather than an illegal rule. It all came down to stage design. Placement of poppers right up against the berm, Forward Falling Poppers, steel plates, not using RFP's as a means to activate drop turners or other targets. Basically taking away the reasons people try to drive down poppers. That combined with better placement on the bay eliminates concerns about the steel.

Dude, what more do you want, running around in the middle of the desert with your three guns, plus a bunch of other peoples machine guns, night vision, ammo and other gear...all at night. What more do you need to know. You're gonna RO for me anyway right Shawn? Just drew up 7 of the 8 stages today. 8th will be done as soon as possible. Rules are done, just need a website to put them up on. Oh, and we confirmed Travis Gibson as RM this morning. This is shaping up very well. The only way to guarantee a spot in the match at this time is to be on staff. I've already had several people email me and join up.

But no one would just have the mag holder. They'd have to buy a regular one, and a magnetic one. Then carry both around and swap based on the match stages. That's the hitch. Excuse me, but where does it say that swapping them out is a requirement? If someone wants to run all magnets on their belt, let them....we are supposed to be freestyle, right? And by the current rules, you don't have to have the first mag holder....shove all your mags in your back pocket. But with the new rule, put more than one mag in your back pocket (or it could be construed that putting any mag in your back pocket, since the new rule I think says "mag holder") will put you into open, because if your back pocket is considered a mag holder and you put 2 into one pouch......hello open..... I run one magnet on my production belt, at all times. It rarely gets used, but it is always there. Alright, I'm done. You guys can beat up another AD for awhile.

I'm happy to announce the Crimson Trace Midnight 3Gun Invitational match in Bend, OR on July 15-17, 2012. This will follow the NW Multigun but will be a unique match in it's own right. The match will comprise 8 stages of fire. Staff will shoot on Sunday following the NW Multigun with competitors shooting Monday and Tuesday. The awards ceremony will be on Wednesday. This is a night match. We will be shooting between 9PM and about 2AM each day. There will be some awesome stage guns that will be provided by our sponsors with the opportunity to shoot some gear that you won't be able to anywhere outside the military. This match will be invitational only. We are looking for the best of the best to compete for a large cash purse and prizes. Unfortunately due to the time constraints and how much longer it takes to run shooters at night safely we will only have about 80 slots for the main match. Competitor invitations will go out soon. What I need now is staff. Thanks to our already committed sponsors, Crimson Trace, Leupold, Warne and others we will be taking care of our staff very well. Please email the Match Director, Chuck Anderson at chuck@andersontactical.com if you are interested. Since it is an invitational match you can guarantee your entry by working the match as well. Staff will be included in the final scores and be included in the prizes, in addition to the RO package. I just took a look at the facility yesterday and this is going to be a great match. I promise much more information over the next month.

It's the IPSC World Shoot. IPSC rules will be followed, to the letter.

For USPSA or IMGA? For IMGA, they just do what they want anyway. Easy fix. For USPSA, I need to think about it a bit. My thoughts would be more related to course design. Have a 30+ round course and include some ports that would make it very difficult to use a greater than 20 round magazine. Not saying reloading is bad, I'd just rather see it handled the same way we handle it with pistol by course design, not trying to force reloads where they wouldn't otherwise be required. That said, I'm not opposed to standards stages in three gun. I'm not saying a whole bunch of them, but one a match certainly wouldn't be bad. I was just meeting with an MD yesterday that wanted to put paper at 300 yds. Be really easy to run a standards stage that would require some skill and reloads.

Please Chuck, 20 isn't really standard anymore, today it's short, almost everyone has 30s in an AR platform. 30 is a good number and most here seem to be in agreement that if there is a limit 30 is good. Never saw a guy with a Galil in 3 gun, they must be hanging out with all those guys who shoot .45 in Production, I guess he'd have to load light, and M14 guys generally don't shoot Tactical. Well, no offense but you need to get out more. We have a guy locally that shoots a Golani (a Century Galil Clone). I'm sure there are more on the local level. Probably not so much at the National level or big matches, but the club level match why not. I've also seen more than one time a Heavy Metal shooter, shooting in Limited or Tactical because there weren't enough people for the Division. What happens in two years when Magpul comes out with the 40 round AR mag and manufacturers start selling guns with those as standard? Will we up the 30 round limit to 40 to keep up with that? I just find it funny that Production is the fastest growing Division and people want to tinker with the capacity. Tactical Scope is far and away the most popular division and people want to tinker with the capacity.

My tin foil hat isn't set up to block uv rays. I had to buy a pair of Rudy's so I could fit in with the cool kids. My point is that one company went after production shooters by making an aftermarket trigger an oem part. Somebody more important than me thought that was too close to cheating and passed a rule to try and stop it. Do we want the manufactuers to stop trying to make products that we actually want? Actually the rule as passed wouldn't have any effect, one way or the other on Springfield Armory or any other competitor using a PRP trigger. The trigger (at least according to Scott Springer) only effects over or pre travel (can't remember which), it doesn't have anything to do with pull weight.

30 rounds isn't arbitrary. 30 rounds is largely the standard magazine length for an AR15. Beyond that and you start spending more money on the latest gizmo to add rounds to a factory mag, welding mags together, or spending big bucks on Surefire mags with questionable reliability, or whatever else is the latest greatest... Really? The standard AR mag was 20 rounds. Most are 30, but all my Pmags hold 31. I also have a whole slew of very inexpensive, and expensive higher capacity magazines. What about the shooter with the Galil? Does he get to have 35 rounds in his magazine? Does the HK 91/M14 shooter only get 20? Just because you shoot an AR doesn't mean everyone does.

Be careful Rob, I wrote that the IPSC rules were unenforcable and within a couple hours had a nice little email from Vince Pinto explaining since I had never done an IPSC gun check, not that I hadn't gone through one, but I hadn't worked the table, I had no idea what I was talking about. He also asked me very politely to stop disparaging the glory that is IPSC (Okay, I might be paraphrasing him since I'm sure he's still reading). You wouldn't want that fancy award they gave you this year in Greece to be taken away because you have an opinion.

Which part, when they had it wide open, or when they arbitrarily limited it to 15?

That's because Rob is TGO. He can call it whatever he wants. (shhh we don't listen to him anyway)

But no one would just have the mag holder. They'd have to buy a regular one, and a magnetic one. Then carry both around and swap based on the match stages. That's the hitch.

Does that mean we have to patronize prostitutes and porn stars, get beat up by our wives and play a little golf on the weekends?

Dude, don't blame me I heard you were behind the XDm which is the root of all that is evil in Production. (and for all the tinfoil hat folks this is complete sarcasm) The XDm, the whipping boy of all this. One company goes out of there way to make a better product for our game and we instantly slam the door in their face with a rule change. I'm guessing we know what you wear to keep the sun out of your eyes at the range? The rule was no more aimed at the XDm than it was at the Glock and M&P platforms. However, Rob has been picking on me since Nationals when he explained just how stupid I was to be shooting a 1:32 twist barrel with 147s. On the next to last stage. Like I hadn't figured that out after looking at 17 stages of sideways bullet impacts. All joking and inside jokes aside. I'm a Production guy through and through. Give the BOD some time to sort it out. It will either be a lot more clear or gone in the next month or two.

Regarding the magnetic mag pouches in Production and Single Stack. The idea behind it was to try and cut down on the amount of race specific gear someone had to buy in either Division. Rather than make someone go out and buy 3-4 magnetic magazine pouches, and have them tote them around to each match that might have a table start, they were eliminated. I know Production and Single Stack are more greatly effected by the change than other divisions would be since you need to grab more mags. But that means you'd also need to buy more magnets. The idea behind both Divisions (at least in my, writing this at 4AM head) is to try and minimize the amount of competition specific gear you "have" to buy to be competetive. Did you guys read 5.2.5.3? Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't think that rule allows you to swap out mag pouches for a different type for a particular stage..... If a production shooter wanted to run "all magnets, all the time" or to run one pouch as a magnet, I'm not seeing the issue.... Yeah, Nik we read it. And if you read my post you'll notice I didn't say anything about swapping out the pouches stage by stage. But I do know people now who carry the magnetic mag pouches (me being one of them) but only put them on if they look at the stages and there is an advantage. Before the match begins I can swap any gear I want.

Not going to rehash it here, but there is another thread along those lines, Production 15.

I've already got my smith working on a 6" SightTracker with a Long Wide frame. I'll lighten the heck out of the slide and barrel, but leave the frame heavy. I might remove frame weight as well at some point but I figure it's worth keeping it there to start. To be honest the topic of 7 and 8 inch guns came up when this was discussed. They've been tried before without great success. I'd be curious to see what smiths can do these days. Good catch on the *thumb rest [generic]*. To be honest I hadn't even considered it. I just started using them on my open guns. I might have to send one of those down as well. This is gonna be fun.

Ruling: Sorry, it's too early in the morning. Can you spell it out for me? What am I missing?