Chuck Anderson

Plastered on the RO tables at each stage and I know I saw a meeting listed in one of the match booklets. For people that know there will be a meeting it's pretty easy to find. For folks that don't always go it a bit trickier. It's one thing I wish they would make more visible.

I'm happy to announce the 2010 Area 1 Championship will be held June 24-27, 2010 in Idaho Falls, ID. A lot of things are going to continue from last year. The prize table will be order of finish, cash prizes for the top shooters, 1 or 2 day schedule, and of course the same great folks from last years match will be putting it on again. For those not familiar with Idaho Falls, I know I had to look it up on the map. It's only about 100 miles from Yellowstone National Park. This is a great opportunity for a match and a family vacation. There will be lots more information to come. The best source to get all the current match info is www.idahouspsa.com. Match application and staff application will be up soon. Area 1 residents are guaranteed a slot in the match if they register by Feb. 28, 2010. But don't wait that long. The sooner you register the better your chances of getting the shooting period you want. The Match Director for this year will be Tim Egan and Rangemaster is Tom Chambers. I know Tim has a lot of great ideas for the match this year. We'll have more info in the coming weeks but this is going to be a great Area match.

Well since it seems that Charles and I are the only other two BOD members on here I'm guessing you're talking about me. Let me make something clear. I do NOT want USPSA to get out of Multigun. I lve shooting multigun. I'm guessing I've shot and worked more multigun matches than any other BOD member other than The Pres. What I am saying is that USPSA multigun is not working. This is not a slam on the Vegas crew. I really wanted to go this year and would have been there but for health issues. The fact that this venue and crew couldn't draw more people speaks to some serious issues with the way we run the sport. I would much rather see USPSA scrap the existing rules (You asked which ones to get rid of) and adopt an IMGA ruleset. Whether it is run as USPSA or along the lines of Steel Challenge as a separate discipline under the USPSA umbrella is something for further discussion. Again I do NOT want to see USPSA get out of multi gun. I just want something that will attract shooters

Speaking as a competitor. I think USPSA Multi gun is pretty much done. Whether it's the rules the ro's or some other intangible we're not fillng matches. People are perpetually pissed off and bitching about the matches after thy are done (not saying the bitching was bad or undeserved). I seriuosly think USPSA needs to take a look at dumping the current rule set and adopting IMGA rules. The precedent is there with Steel Challenge to have a disciplne than doesn't strictly adhere to DVC or the rest of the rules. Don't market it as USPSA. This would be easier to swallow for sponsors than giving to the 4th USPSA Nationals of the year. There are a lot more reasons but think about it.

Yes but the Champion is a comped single action gun. It has to be a factory option on a production legal gun.

Modified will still be around for a few years. The talk is to remove it in 2012 I believe. Generally major rule changes, such as Divison removal, would be discussed during the General Assembly as part of a World Shoot, the next being in 2011. I would suggest contacting your RD and letting him know your feelings about the Division.

I remember an Area 6 a couple years ago where there was a 32 round field course. Max Michel burned it down in about 18 seconds, but the top time listed was a 12 second run by Angus Hobdell. Angus had already caught it and reported it to stats on his own, should have been 22. Didn't keep him from messing with Dave Olhasso though. I seem to remember Angus called it "purpling the Dave". I think Dave may have been a little hot under the collar when Angus told him he was keeping the time.

Nope. Spring and stop are sold as an assembly.

I'm not there but I heard she hit her pistol with her shotgun getting out of the jeep. Pistol dropped and hit the dirt

Glock 40's, Beretta, Smith, Sig,XD, Tanfoglio, Para. And I'm sure I'm missing some others. Lots of gun companies make guns with capacities below 18-21 which is pretty common for the top guns now. Now it's open for guys that want to shoot minor 40 and even a few that want to shoot 45.

Is it official or is that still the proposed rule? If it's official I'm all for it. Sounds like a good and needed change that will allow some clarity in IPSC Production

Not once we hit January. I've still got 15 years or so.

Apparently it needs to be a bit clearer. 10.2.2 only applies to shots fired while faulting. For example a fault line where you're leaning out. If you fire 3 shots at a 4 targets while faulting the line and you gained a significant advantage you get three pentalties, one per shot fired. Not a procedural for every shot in the stage. You don't go back and assess a penalty for every target in the stage or even in that array. You only get penalized while faulting. You're right I am hung up on only applying per shot penalties when a shot is fired. No one has said if you know the rule book you can ignore it and do whatever you want. What people said was if you know the rule book and know that 10.2.2 only applies to shots fired while faulting, the part you seem to be missing, then there might be a reward to skipping part of the WSB, a reward that will have consequences, but might still be worth it.

The difference is that in the case of the cans or briefcase the WSB does not stipulate when to move the cans just that they have to be moved before the last shot. If you are free to move them when ever you want then how would the RO know which shots to apply the penalty to? Because the only time they have to be in a specific position is before the last shot. That is the only one the shooter can be at fault on.

My take is that the penalty is not being applied to the act of the actual shots but to shooting the COF outside the procedures outlined in the WSB. In doing so it is deemed that you gained an "significant advantage" so the remedy is to add a penalty to the required number of shots. The problem is your "take" isn't supported by the rules. You can't give somebody a procedural for doing something that there is no prohibition against. Take the stage you're so worked up about in Ohio. If a shooter shoots all the stage except the last popper, then runs back and puts the cans in the appropriate position, then fires the last shot. So, by the stage description, they can shoot all the targets, but one round without incurrnig any kind of procedural. The last shot is the only one that is subject to procedural. If they had said before the last two shot are fired it would have been 4 (2 each per shot because of 2 cans). There is not a rule in USPSA saying that if the stage designer leaves a hole, whether intentional or not, that we're not allowed to drive a truck through it.

Kind of scary when folks at a match like an Area championship don't know how to properly apply the rules. Was this run up through the RM or just RO's? There is no way this is a legal ruling under 10.2.2. The description you give is more like they designated it a forbidden action.

I really can't think of one, which is kind of why I'm stuck. I guess if I was looking to change a division I would look at how it would affect the shooters currently involved with it as well as any potential increase in participation it might bring. With the 10 round limit we have status quo, which is a pretty good reason to stick with it. Changing to 12 rounds on the con side would cause some folks who only have 10 round magazines to be at a disadvantage, same with guns that only have a 10 round capacity or even a bit lower (i.e. Sig 220). On the Pro side of 12 rounds I really only see having two extra rounds and being able to miss more. Stage design is such that most arrays are no more than 8 rounds, so you'd be dumping 4 rounds on the ground at most posititions instead of 2. The only time you'd get to stretch your legs with the extra two rounds is if someone designed the course for revolvers which is not that common. Yes the 10 round limit was instituted as a result of the AWB. But there are a lot of people that bought gear around the magazine capacity we've had for 10+ years. For me it's less about finding a good reason to keep the current rule than it is about needing a very good one to change it. So again, what good would come of a 12 round limit? BTW, IPSC is proposing a 15 round limit in Production. From their perspective things are a bit different. They've always been 9mm primarily and reducing the round count is unlikely to cause any particular gun to be substantially less competetive. All the equipment currenly in use could be used with 15 rounds plus it could open the division to some other guns that aren't currently competetive. This is the type of rule change I would be in favor of. Something that makes the Divison more inclusive, rather than exclusive.

So? It was and competitors bought equipment based on the rules for the last decade. What GOOD reason is there to change?

Strick, read the WSB again. How many shots are required with each can in the final position. Only one, the last shot fired. That is the only shot that was fired while out of compliance with the WSB. A procedural penalty per shot fired WAS assessed. There just was only one shot fired out of compliance.

Then why have any WSB's? Because it defined the appropriate procedural penalties that the shooters who didn't move the cans received. You seem like you don't realize the shooters were penalized in accordance with the rules and the WSB. That's why it's there. This was nothing more than a concious decision to eat some penalties for a faster time. No different than not engaging a disappearing target. The penalties in this case were pretty darn close to reality. There wasn't a huge gain to be made by not carrying the cans. Look at the rest of the stages. Vogel and Stoeger dominated the match anyway. If they'd have carried the cans, they still would have won the stage. The WSB is there to specify procedures. The rule book explains what happens if you don't follow those procdures. My boss has a saying. You can do whatever you want. Just be willing to pay the consequences. The shooters in this case violated the WSB and paid the appropriate consequences for that violation. In this particular case, in Production, with really fast shooters, it worked out being worth paying the consequence.

Gotta say, I'm really surprised there has been this much discussion on this topic. I must be missing something. It seems to me like everything was run just fine. The shooters shot it the way the stage designer intended, both with and without the can. Is there really that much resistance to free thinking? Are there really that many people that think every possible outcome needs to be put into the WSB? Engage T1-T12 as the become visible becomes, engage T1-T12 as they become visible, there is a sweet spot where shooters can engage T1-T6 from the position marked with an X on the diagram. T7 and T8 are best shot from this location Y and oh, by the way since T12 a disappearing target shooters with a HF over 6 would be better off skipping the target and dropping the points because it takes 1.4 seconds to appear after activation. This is one of the most practical aspects I think there is in Practical Shooting. Allowing shooters to decide the best tactics to shoot the stage. And having the forethought to examine the stage and determine the best way to shoot it instead of blindly following the same way everyone else shot it like a bunch of sheep. This is realistic. When I'm getting shot at (and it's happened more than once) it's not the IPSC shooting skills that got me through it, it's the ability to think with the gun in hand instead of going into vapor lock. Same thing with evaluating a stage ahead of time. Looking for different angles and what the best way to get through something directly translates into defensive and practical shooting. I have yet to make an entry on a residence and shoot 16 people 2 times each. But I have used my brain and what I learn in IPSC to avoid having to do it.

We had problems on both days. I was shooting 9 mm 147FMJ. Had a couple rounds of mine that were clearly messed up including one the RO called as a miss because it was too small to be a bullet hole fortunately there was a bit of radius and grease ring. I also taped several other holes that were goofy looking.

I would not use that stuff again. I saw several bullets that fragmented (including a few of my own) after going through it. It seriously affected some bullets in a negative way. Soft cover should be an impediment to vision not bullet proof.

The rule you quote is exactly the rule that was used. Reading the rule book and understanding it would cause you to realize that yes there was a significant advantage gained and yes a procedural per shot fired should be/was assessed. What you're missing is that the procedure stated they had to be in position prior to the last shot. Therefore the last shot is the only one fired when the competitor is faulting. One shot, two procedurals, one for each can not in compliance with the WSB. Competitors make decisions on every course of fire whether or comply 100% with the WSB. If a WSB says engage all targets as they become visible and the competitor doesn't engage one, there is a penalty for that. Whether that is a deliberate decision, say to skip a disappearing target or an accidental one where the shooter blows by a target not realizing it was there, the procedural penalty is there, certainly not a DQ though. The shooter can always choose to disregard the WSB. In 99.99% of the cases it will not work out in their favor. In this case it did. Knowing, from reading the rule book and being completely familiar with it, allowed some competitors to realize that there was an alternative way to shoot the stage.

There is a problem with the idea of a max time that can not be avoided. Say I start the stage and shoot half of it when my gun breaks. It would be really unfair to stick me with all of the misses required under the current rules plus a max time. As said before, it is really about the walk through. Just give them a procedureal for every shot fired when the can is not where it is stated it must be in the walk though or just do not require it al all. That's exactly what they did. Each can was supposed to be on the table before the last shot fired. One procedural for each can that was not in position for that last shot. I'm not sure where this max time stuff is coming from.