Joeg26er Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Is it possible to obtain Limited Minor Grand Master On Factory 115gr Ammo and stock Glock? if yes, who has done it and what ammo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtturn Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 This strikes me as a strange question; it's oddly specific. If the question is "Is it possible?", then sure, it's possible. Has an individual within those strict parameters actually done it? I don't know, it seems unlikely. Not sure the brand of ammo is relevant at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 it's also possible to win matches while carrying a cinder block in a backpack. the question is, why would anyone want to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedevil008 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I think there are plenty of of Glock production shooters that could throw down some GM scores in Limited, especially if you shoot the right classifiers, i.e. steel-heavy arrays, close-up, and no-reloads. Still possible otherwise, but those things would minimize the advantage that a nicer Ltd gun helps with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeg26er Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 Thanks Has an individual within those strict parameters actually done it? Is what I'd like to know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 yes, and I'm curious about the cinder block as well. Has it actually been done? What weight and shape of cinder block were used to provide a pointless disadvantage for no apparent reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcfoto Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 27 minutes ago, motosapiens said: yes, and I'm curious about the cinder block as well. Has it actually been done? What weight and shape of cinder block were used to provide a pointless disadvantage for no apparent reason? Was it a stock cinder block from Home Depot or a custom job from a nationally known smith? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLDave Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Joeg, there's no official recordbook of shooter's individual guns, much less individual brands of ammo. There's no way to know the answer to your question, except to the extent that someone did it and then publicized it, just as there is no place to look in the record for whether anyone has made GM while wearing a cinderblock. There's not a cinderblock data field in the classifier database, just as there is no gun-brand or ammo-brand (or bullet-weight) field in the database. I am not aware of anyone doing either of these things. There is a survey of the equipment used at the Nationals every year. That's probably the closest thing to an "official" record of what stuff people are using, but it doesn't ask about what they were using when they made X class. Maybe that would be of interest to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 So to be clear if a shooter had made GM in Limited shooting minor with a GLOCK you would discount it they reloaded their ammo? how about if they happen to buy 124g factory ammo? what if they changed something on their GLOCK to get a trigger feel they liked better? Can it be done YES has anyone who shoots the amount that is necessary to achieve it done so within the very limiting boundary's you have set most likely not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeg26er Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) OK you guys are taking this way too seriously I was asking if anyone was aware of anyone that has done this I believe the answer is no and that nobody actual thinks this is a good idea LOL In sum- it's virtually impossible to become a GM Limited minor with a stock Glock with fiber optic sights without using powder puff loads would that be an accurate statement? Edited January 30, 2018 by Joeg26er Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLDave Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 No, I don't think that is accurate at all. I'd bet money that, say, Dave Sevigny or Bob Vogel could put up scores averaging 95+% on at least 6 classifiers (which is what it takes to "make GM") with a stock Glock 17 and WWB 115 grain. I have basically no doubt about that. I just doubt they'd be that interested in bothering with it, but you could always ask them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 on the actual point of the question ammo doesn't matter in 9mm we may all think we have some special advantage from our secret recipe 152.5 grain bullets and unobtanium number 2.65 powder, but in the end its all 125+ pf minor and it just doesn't matter. so taking that out of the mix, the best I know of is a local shooter that made master with a G34 shooting from concealment and reloading from concealment. if he were to go to a race belt setup I believe he would make GM, but the reloads from concealment cost him just enough to keep him from making it. also I believe he runs an aftermarket recoil spring so that probably disqualifies him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLDave Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I would also say that the really skilled shooters are better able to overcome suboptimal gear than the mediocre shooters. Look at golf. Many of the pros still use blade clubs (for various reasons), but most average weekend players are completely incapable of posting a score within 10 strokes of their handicap if you make them play blades. The amateurs need more forgiveness than the pros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgj3 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I'm with Dave here. It is absolutely possible to do it! And, with just shooting classifiers and not looking for match bumps, etc., it is even more doable. Not highly recommended, and would be tough to back up that GM card at majors vs. similarly skilled shooters with major scoring ammo, but you can absolutely make GM with a plastic gun and factory ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLDave Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said: ammo doesn't matter in 9mm we may all think we have some special advantage from our secret recipe 152.5 grain bullets and unobtanium number 2.65 powder, but in the end its all 125+ pf minor and it just doesn't matter. That's not quite true. The weight and velocity of the burned powder/gasses also contributes to recoil, and that does vary, both in terms of powder type and projectile weight. It has been demonstrated with experiments with humans removed from the experiment. Nice article on the topic: http://www.shootingtimes.com/reloading/power-factor-recoil-bullet-weight-gives-edge/ Edited January 30, 2018 by ATLDave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, Joeg26er said: In sum- it's virtually impossible to become a GM Limited minor with a stock Glock with fiber optic sights without using powder puff loads would that be an accurate statement? No I believe Ben Stoeger used win white box for years, and last I heard he was using american eagle 124s for matches. you should do a experiment ( I have) load you mags with a mixture of factory 115 and whatever you think of as powder puff minor ammo and shoot a stage. other than they sound funny I bet you don't notice much change in how the gun moves or recoils. yes standing at a bench thinking about the recoil you can totally tell whats what, but on the clock not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, ATLDave said: That's not quite true. The weight and velocity of the burned powder/gasses also contributes to recoil, and that does vary, both in terms of powder type and projectile weight. It has been demonstrated with experiments with humans removed from the experiment. yes it makes a difference but the difference is so small as to be inconsequential Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Also remember the world shoot in Florida. Eric Grauffel would have won standard with his production scores. yes I know he didn't use a GLOCK, but he did shoot minor and have less ammo and a DA trigger pull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLDave Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said: yes it makes a difference but the difference is so small as to be inconsequential I think a measured 10% difference in recoil is real. Is it consequential in terms of HF's? Probably varies by shooter. And the best shooters are probably better equipped to shrug it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLDave Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) Grauffel could probably win a lot of matches with a single action revolver if he put a little time into it. Doesn't mean it's immaterial. Great player is great. Edited January 30, 2018 by ATLDave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Odd that the best production shooter doesn't compete with 126PF 160grain ammo loaded with N310. from the conversations I have had with many shooters MUCH better than I is they are more concerned with feel than recoil energy, and many prefer the snappier feel of lighter bullets at the expense of more recoil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLDave Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Absolutely. I think that's an especially common view with minor PF loads. There are reasons one might prefer slightly more recoil, or be willing to trade it for some other characteristic. I mostly shoot major PF, and I'm a lousy A-class shooter, so I'm chasing every reduction in recoil I can get! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, ATLDave said: Absolutely. I think that's an especially common view with minor PF loads. There are reasons one might prefer slightly more recoil, or be willing to trade it for some other characteristic. I mostly shoot major PF, and I'm a lousy A-class shooter, so I'm chasing every reduction in recoil I can get! the difference between factory 40 and 170PF 40 reloads is significantly more dramatic than factory 9mm to any other minor 9mm. I used to chase the perfect load and hace loaded 170s in 9mm they feel great but when I was running out of ammo loaded for a match and mixed in some factory 115s and my super heavy super soft loads and ran a stage the only thing I noticed was the sound, the sights did close enough to the same thing every shot that I just quit worrying about minor ammo after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLDave Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I've played around with bullet weights in 40/10mm, all handloaded, and I can tell the difference between, say, 180's and 220's (which are what I am currently using) loaded to the same PF. I can tell the difference during a stage for sure. Can the timer tell the difference? IDK. Maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amokscience Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Go look on Vogel's website how he got his GM card in Open Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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