Clarification on Classifier 99-41, Works for Me

[nuidad]

Question about Classifier 99-41, Works for Me:  Can the competitor:

 

1. Engage T1 and T2, then engage PP1 from the left side
2. Perform the MR
3. Engage T3 and T4 then engage PP2 and T5 from the right side

 

The language in the final sentence (below) suggests that the procedure above is not permitted.

 

On the audible start signal, from within the fault lines, engage the appropriate targets from either side of the barricade, then make a mandatory reload and engage the appropriate targets from the other side of the barricade. T1 and T2 must be engaged from only the left side of the barricade. T3 and T4 must be engaged from only the right side of the barricade, T5, PP1 and PP2 may be engaged from either side.  No further reload is required to engage targets after completing the original stage.

99-41.pdf

[ChuckS]

Yup.

[teros135]

Yes.  From the discussion of this classifier on BE folks seem to be honoring the "T1-T2 from the left, reload, and T3-T4 from the right" mandate and engaging the additional targets from either side, just like the WSB says.

[George Jones]

I disagree.

The shooter satisfied the first, second and third sentences in the WSB as stated. 

The last sentence (not particularly well written) seems to imply, but does not require, that T5, PP1 and PP2 be engaged last.

[teros135]

6 minutes ago, George Jones said:

I disagree.

The shooter satisfied the first, second and third sentences in the WSB as stated. 

The last sentence (not particularly well written) seems to imply, but does not require, that T5, PP1 and PP2 be engaged last.

 

Then he satisfied the WSB as written, yes?

[George Jones]

teros,

That is my opinion.

[nuidad]

2 hours ago, teros135 said:

Yes.  From the discussion of this classifier on BE folks... 

Has this been discussed before on BE?  I couldn't find any other discussion using the search function.  Can you suggest a search word or term I could use?

 

The clause, "...after completing the original stage,"  is really confusing.

 

EDIT:  Did find some discussion on the USPSA Classifier Scores forum.

Edited January 22, 2018 by nuidad

[teros135]

35 minutes ago, nuidad said:

Has this been discussed before on BE?  I couldn't find any other discussion using the search function.  Can you suggest a search word or term I could use?

 

The clause, "...after completing the original stage,"  is really confusing.

 

EDIT:  Did find some discussion on the USPSA Classifier Scores forum.

 

Yes, that's what I was referring to.  This classifier has been discussed for years with descriptions of how folks have run it.  

[nuidad]

I'm trying to think of any explanation for the intent of the last sentence other than to require that T5 and the PPs (the center array) be engaged last.  The first sentence seems to indicate that the engagement requirements of T1 to T4 must be satisfied first (the original stage?), then the center array.  The vague term "appropriate targets"...used twice in the first sentence...appears to suggest they are talking about T1 - T4...not the center array.

 

Is this settled law?  Should I just let this go and shoot the middle array anywhere, any time during the COF?  just as long  as I shoot T1 -T4 from right and left side with the MR in between?

 

On the audible start signal, from within the fault lines, engage the appropriate targets from either side of the barricade, then make a mandatory reload and engage the appropriate targets from the other side of the barricade. T1 and T2 must be engaged from only the left side of the barricade. T3 and T4 must be engaged from only the right side of the barricade, T5, PP1 and PP2 may be engaged from either side.  No further reload is required to engage targets after completing the original stage.

Edited January 22, 2018 by nuidad

[George Jones]

That's the problem anytime you have an unclear stage procedure, which is a very common problem at local matches.

This classifier is quite old and was probably created in 1998, back when our rules were not evolved to the point they are now.

Ultimately, as any good stage designer will tell you, it's not about what you think it intends, it's only about what it clearly requires.

 

As to "settled law", if you want that the only source is DNROI.  But I'm pretty confident he would agree with me.

[waktasz]

29 minutes ago, nuidad said:

I'm trying to think of any explanation for the intent of the last sentence other than to require that T5 and the PPs (the center array) be engaged last.  The first sentence seems to indicate that the engagement requirements of T1 to T4 must be satisfied first (the original stage?), then the center array.  The vague term "appropriate targets"...used twice in the first sentence...appears to suggest they are talking about T1 - T4...not the center array.

 

Is this settled law?  Should I just let this go and shoot the middle array anywhere, any time during the COF?  just as long  as I shoot T1 -T4 from right and left side with the MR in between?

 

On the audible start signal, from within the fault lines, engage the appropriate targets from either side of the barricade, then make a mandatory reload and engage the appropriate targets from the other side of the barricade. T1 and T2 must be engaged from only the left side of the barricade. T3 and T4 must be engaged from only the right side of the barricade, T5, PP1 and PP2 may be engaged from either side.  No further reload is required to engage targets after completing the original stage.

 

The last sentence is there because some classifiers tell you you have to do another mandatory reload when switching arrays. It's not necessary to have it there but that's why it is.

[nuidad]

I have sent an inquiry to DNROI

 

Thanks all.

[teros135]

And whatever comes back still won't be the "law" you want, until it's published in the WSB.

[nuidad]

1 hour ago, teros135 said:

And whatever comes back still won't be the "law" you want, until it's published in the WSB.

You are correct.  I'll post his response here.  We'll have something to go by with his opinion.

[nuidad]

Here is the question I posed to Troy:

 

I have a question about Classifier 99-41, Works for Me:  Can the competitor engage the middle array (T5 and the PPs) at any point during the course of fire or does the WSB require that it be shot after T1 thorough T4 have been engaged.  Could I shoot T5 and the PPs first, and then engage the the appropriate targets from the corresponding sides of the barricade?

 

His Response:

 

 

Troy McManus	7:58 PM (30 minutes ago)

Yes, you can shoot it that way.

 

Troy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[stick]

I just shot this Saturday in a match as a stage and not as a classifier.  I shot it T1, T2 & PP1 from the left side of the barricade, reloaded and shot T3, T4, PP2 and T5 from the right side.  

 

T1 and T2 must be engaged from only the left side of the barricade. T3 and
T4 must be engaged from only the right side of the barricade.
T5, PP1 and PP2 may be engaged from either side of the
barricade. No further reload is required to engage targets

 

 

[nuidad]

On 1/22/2018 at 10:28 PM, stick said:

I just shot this Saturday in a match as a stage and not as a classifier.  I shot it T1, T2 & PP1 from the left side of the barricade, reloaded and shot T3, T4, PP2 and T5 from the right side.  

 

T1 and T2 must be engaged from only the left side of the barricade. T3 and
T4 must be engaged from only the right side of the barricade.
T5, PP1 and PP2 may be engaged from either side of the
barricade. No further reload is required to engage targets after completing the original stage.

 

 

Stick:  It's the part you left off that made me question whether or not it could be shot your way.

 

That's all moot now.  I'm down wit DNROI.