leadslinger275 Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I am currently a C class production shooter shooting a Glock 34. I shot a couple of matches last year in Georgia and moved next to a fairly large club in Washington State earlier this year. Since then I have joined USPSA and I shoot 2-3 matches a month depending on my work schedule. During practice my draw for 7 to 10 yards and in is between 1.2 and 1.5 seconds, 15 yards is 1.5 to 1.7, and 25 to 30 yards is 1.8 to 2 seconds. Is this fast enough to push into B? I am currently sitting on a 51% average for classifiers. I have been shooting mostly A's during most field courses and classifiers the main issue I am running into is my speed with my basic skills. I want to get my basic skills up to par before I start trying to focus on Gaming stages. What are your thoughts and recommendations? What other basic skills should I be focusing on before I try to push it hard on speed? Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browtine Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Take this with a grain of salt because I've only been shooting USPSA since February of this year. My draw times are similar to yours and I'm a B shooter. I'd concentrate on other things like reloads, shooting on the move, target transitions and stage planning before my draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz-0 Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 That's more than fast enough for b. For dry fire, reloads, looking your way to the next target, and isolating your upper body from your lower are probably the mist useful things for getting better stage scores. Bur you REALLY need to learn how to break down a stage, make a plan, and execute it without brain freeze. At the c level of performance, improved stage strategy can make a difference of 5-10 seconds. You won't find that much time for as little work anyplace else except ensuring your gear runs 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 (edited) Also take time to squad with the better Production shooters and watch how they breakdown the stages. Get on the squads with Yong L, Tom D. Emanuel P, Matt K, etc. You don't need to shoot at their pace, but watch their strategies, and ask them why they chose that over other choices. These guys are good guys and will give you advice and encouragement. From time to time, Aristotle manages to arrange a day of coaching by one or two top shooters like Travis or Max. If you can afford it, jump on those opportunities. Also try to hookup with the up and coming production shooters like Ken W, Jeff T, and Josh G so that you can share learning experiences and maybe setup some friendly competition. Hope to see you at the Northwest Challenge in two weeks! Edited July 3, 2011 by Skydiver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonovanM Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 (edited) Hey Brandon! Missed you at the classifier match a few weeks ago. Having just transitioned from C to B and now A class, there's plenty of other things to work on, but I think you should get that down to a second and you'll be in good shape to get into A class. You understand the form, so all it takes to build some speed and consistency into it at this point is pounding out the reps, which is best done at home without ammo or even pulling the trigger necessarily. It sounds like you understand this, but when dry firing, concentrate on technique first, then speed, the objective being to avoid building bad habits - take it from a guy who has plenty. Twenty minutes a day for a little while would do the trick. Pay attention to your transitions, and make sure to acquire with your eyes exactly where you want to shoot at on the target, and let the gun bring itself into position. Also work on your reloads too, you can't get them under a second as easily as the draw, and it's not really as critical, but still important. Oh yeah, and check out the drill in post #5 of this thread. I run it with a baseline of .6, which is entirely possible for you given a little time Good luck! I'd offer to help you practice but we don't exactly live next door so it's not really feasible. Edited July 3, 2011 by DonovanM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leadslinger275 Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 Thanks for the info guys. I'm gonna try to shoot that 2 day northwest challenge match in Marysville. Hopefully I'll see you guys there. I'll for sure be at the Tuesday night match and this week and the match on Sunday. Hopefully I'll be able to break into B by the end of the year! See you guys at the range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleforte78 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 I'm about to move from C to B hopefully this weekend! The breakthrough for me has been in making quicker transitions. There are usually more transitions on a stage than anything else except rounds fired. If I'm facing an array of 3 targets I try to focus on the one I'm shooting but also keep the others in my peripheral vision. Almost like you're watching all three at once and connecting them with the front sight. This is also closely related to stage planning and shooting position. I've also made big strides in this area practicing airsoft in my backyard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskySig Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Simply put, I think a blazingly fast draw is way overrated. It's amazing to me how many people on this board claim sub one second draws in practice, but when match day roles around the real "For the money" draw time is considerably slower. A couple years ago I posted in the classifier section about a 96-97% run on a classifier that I shot. It was one of the few times where I actually looked at the timer after the fact. The draw, splits, transitions, and reload were all quite pedestrian compared to what people seem to expect. Long story short, I'd rather have a rock solid 1-1.1 second draw than a flaky hero or zero 0.8 draw any day and twice on match day. Remember. There is only one draw per stage compared to how many splits and transitions? The ability to call your shots consistently at speed is where you'll see the most improvement in your scores. You can really only do this out at the range through lots of live fire repetitions. At home, it's pretty easy to do dry fire practice for reloads and draws. Again, I spend more time on reloads only because there are generally more reloads per stage than draws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirveyr Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Your draw time is just fine. As HuskySig said, the draw is overrated. There are many places to make up time on a stage. Typically, you are doing other things while you are drawing. A good draw is important, but not nearly as important as some around here would make it out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Why is your draw time different for the different distances? Are you drawing slower...due to the longer distance? (keep the same draw speed) Are you off target at the longer distances? (work on your NPA and index) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 BTW, what is your weakhand doing while your strong hand goes to the gun in the holster? Anything? Many leave it hanging in the wind. They probably give up a quarter of a second doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Stoeger Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 I very rarely see anyone get under a second in an actual match situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBoyle Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 (edited) What does Ben know anyway? Even when I RO'd at a major steel match, the Pro's were in the 1.0-1.1 ballpark on 10-15 yard plates. Their runs were almost all the same though. I think target to target and stage breakdown are where you would see the most improvement. I know I use to focus a lot on the sub second draw but I would pay for it by having a bad grip half the time. A consistant good grip is much more important. Brian Edited July 10, 2011 by BBoyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standby! Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 My times from holster to target average .89, but I would rather have a consistent and steady 1.0 anyday. The way I see it is I'd rather devote more time to getting a proper grip and sight picture than rushing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I am more interested in execution, than raw time. This is a learning opportunity. One that may be applied to other things down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhop Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 (edited) i was a very competitive master before i ever completed a sub 1.0 second draw in a match or practice Edited July 11, 2011 by mhop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Something to consider coming from a shooter who started last year as a C, worked into B and is now pushing A: try to video yourself shooting some matches. You will think you shot really well and moved about the stage perfectly but when you watch it, it can almost make you sick how slow it was. You are drawing in the 1.2s range now. getting a 1.0s will save you .2 of a second...not much. Not taking those extra steps looking for targets will saev 2-3 full seconds. executing the reloads perfectly will save you .5s/reload, 2 or 3 per stage - there is another 1.5s. Transitions from target to target (5-15 per stage at .2-.3 per tranistion)....the list goes on. Moral is there is a LOT of places that time can be made up other than just the draw speed. Yes, draw speed is important for classifier stages and stand-and-shoot speed shoot stages, but most of the time, you will be drawing and moving at the same time so you can absorb a slower draw by eliminating other wasted movement in the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standby! Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Something to consider coming from a shooter who started last year as a C, worked into B and is now pushing A: try to video yourself shooting some matches. You will think you shot really well and moved about the stage perfectly but when you watch it, it can almost make you sick how slow it was. You are drawing in the 1.2s range now. getting a 1.0s will save you .2 of a second...not much. Not taking those extra steps looking for targets will saev 2-3 full seconds. executing the reloads perfectly will save you .5s/reload, 2 or 3 per stage - there is another 1.5s. Transitions from target to target (5-15 per stage at .2-.3 per tranistion)....the list goes on. Moral is there is a LOT of places that time can be made up other than just the draw speed. Yes, draw speed is important for classifier stages and stand-and-shoot speed shoot stages, but most of the time, you will be drawing and moving at the same time so you can absorb a slower draw by eliminating other wasted movement in the stage. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemiAsianMan Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 (edited) Good Luck at the Marysville Series Match it will be tons of fun. I have one word of advise to you. "Transitions" At the C level usually the best thing you can work on are transitions. Luckily Draw, Transitiosn, and Reloads you can all work on at home during dry fire practice. I can with almost 100% certainty tell you that working on transitions will save you more time than anything else. Also as a side note about dry firing. Do not make the same mistake I have made in the past and take shortcuts or not get your sights lined up exactly how you call an A shot. Doing so will cause you to actually be practicing it wrong and you will get to a match and notice you tanked like never before. Every time you pull up your gun to dry fire your sights need to be lined up and trigger and grip need to be correct, otherwise your practicing wrong and will bring it to the match with you and like I have on many occasions tank. And to further the argument that Draw time is over rated. I have a friend who has a much slower draw than I do, we have about the same accuracy, but his transitions are much faster than mine. He usually beats me by 10-15% in the speed department because he makes up the lack of draw time with very fast transitions. We joke with him that his draw is like watching him with a high speed camera and then once the first shot is fired it goes into quick time. Edited July 13, 2011 by DemiAsianMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskySig Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Having just transitioned from C to B and now A class... Looks like you counted your chickens before the eggs hatched! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonovanM Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 (edited) Having just transitioned from C to B and now A class... Looks like you counted your chickens before the eggs hatched! HA! ... Oh god Yep. (Edit: The scores were actually mistabulated, I did make A class.) Edited July 18, 2011 by DonovanM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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