9mm 165 gr - Barely PF, Keyholing...ideas?

[valerko]

I used 165s for a while , but couldn't get decent accuracy. I had to bump the load to pretty much same as with 147s , so at the end ther wasn't too much recoil difference. That being said same load performed completely different with different guns.

[seanc]

The other 9mm 165 gr thread seemed like it might be about to start going down the tubes, so I thought I'd start a new thread for my question.

I'm shooting IDPA, trying out some heavier stuff. I picked up some Xtreme 165's and am tinkering with them. Only pistol powders I have here are 231 and Titegroup, but it looks like I'm going to need more. I can barely make PF with 2.8 grs of TG, getting 771 fps with it and a SD of 9. Would like to be up around 790 to be sure it'll always work, but my WSP primers are flattening.

I'm shooting this load through an LTT-built Beretta 92G with a Bar-Sto barrel and getting no keyholing, but I also want to be able to run it in my BUG gun which is a PX4 Compact. With that pistol I'm getting 735 fps and at least 3 out of 10 rounds are keyholing. Also tried this same load in an STI Sentry 5", and it keyholed a couple. My understanding is that keyholing can happen from bullet base deformity, a too-heavy crimp, or too low of velocity.

I'm taper-crimping and only removing the flare. Seating to 1.155 OAL. When I tried 231, I was getting primer flattening at 2.9 grs and only 720 fps.

I haven't worked with loads that were on the edge of max before, so I could use your help. I have some CCI SP primers here that I could try if they would help, and I could stretch the OAL out by another .010 and see if it would still feed...but I wonder if the real problem is just that I don't have a slow enough powder to get done what I want.

Any suggestions?

You have a lot of good replies here. I would only add that based on experience with 160g bullets in 9mm and short colts in revolvers that 1.155 is quite short and is going to dramatically increase pressure.

Heavy bullets have to be loaded long, probably longer than your chamber is without the bullet hitting the rifling meaning you need to ream them a touch more, I belive the exact tool is a lead reamer, not sure.

ce with 160+ gn is slower is probably better. I got this bit from bullseye shooters where the prevailing evidence/belief is more or less you want to push them just fast enough to stabilize and m

Edited July 5, 2016 by seanc

[mchapman]

As you have found , Longshot is a powder that you can probably get the results you are looking for , another powder to look at is HS-6.

[jdlincoln]

With my 165gr 9mm experiments I was up to 2.7 titegroup with cci spp's @ 1.150 and getting flattened primers. In my search for BUG loads out of my DW ECO I've setteled on Bayou 147's with 2.5 tg @ 1.150. No keyholing @ 25 yards out of a 3.5" barrel. Ave FPS 660 for a PF of 97. Pistol does have a cut down Glock recoil spring, 20lb. officer mainspring and a cammer hammer to be able to cycle that light load.

Had a lot of great suggestions from this forum and it still took a lot of time and effort to find the right combination of parts and loadings that worked.

I finally have a combination I'm happy with just in time to find out the S&W Indoor BUG Nationals has been cancelled for this year.

JD

Ps: Wife's Sig p320sc makes 688 FPS or 101 PF and runs with this loading.

Edited July 25, 2016 by jdlincoln

[Neomet]

If nobody has said it yet keyholing is often the result of excessive crimp.

[jdlincoln]

With my 165gr 9mm experiments I was up to 2.7 titegroup with cci spp's @ 1.150 and getting flattened primers. In my search for BUG loads out of my DW ECO I've setteled on Bayou 147's with 2.5 tg @ 1.150. No keyholing @ 25 yards out of a 3.5" barrel. Ave FPS 660 for a PF of 97. Pistol does have a cut down Glock recoil spring, 20lb. officer mainspring and a cammer hammer to be able to cycle that light load.

Had a lot of great suggestions from this forum and it still took a lot of time and effort to find the right combination of parts and loadings that worked.

I finally have a combination I'm happy with just in time to find out the S&W Indoor BUG Nationals has been cancelled for this year.

JD

Ps: Wife's Sig p320sc makes 688 FPS or 101 PF and runs with this loading.

Edit for brain fade: I was looking at FPS data for the 165's In the above post. The 147's are running 722-729 FPS for a PF of 106-107. SD 8-9, ES 29. over 2- 10 round chrono runs. I did have 2 stovepipes with the 2.5 gr loads today out of 100. I am going to up the charge by a tenth or two and keep testing.

Sorry for the mistake.

JD