Tbone550

An update on this: After doing some studying in the Quickload software, I went to town with a list of suitable powders going by the pressure numbers in the software. The only powder I was able to find locally was Hodgdon Longshot, and a load of 3.8 grs has given me an average of 823 fps in the full-size Beretta (SD 15), and 798 fps in the PX4 Compact. There was no keyholing on the targets and the primers looked normal. There was a storm coming so no time for in-depth testing, but for now it looks like I have a powder that solves the previous problems I was having.

Hey Dlister, thanks for your reply. I tried 2.6 but wasn't making PF at that charge. I'm not getting any keyholing with my IDPA gun, but am with the others. The bigger issue is pressure. The Quickload software just came in the mail, so I'm going to sit down and see if I can't start figuring out some options with slower powders - see what type of pressures are predicted for loads that'll make PF reliably.

IDescribe, thank you for reiterating the problems with this load as it currently sits. That's what I briefly did in my title line and elaborated on in the original and following posts. Did you have an experienced suggestion for a slower powder to use with the 165's? Because that is what I came here looking for. These 165's are an experiment for me. I enjoy reloading just for the sake of reloading, and if I gain some benefit from it, great. If not, also fine. There's no need to criticize my grip or recoil control.

I didn't police all of the brass between loads, so all I can say for sure is that the ones in the background all came from the Beretta 92, and the ones in the front either came from the PX4 or the STI. The difference in how the primers look could be from which load (tried two different 231 loads and two different TG loads) or could be from differences in internal case capacities (mixed brass) causing pressure differences. I found somewhere online that 2.8 grs of TG was at 9mm +P pressure levels (around 38k psi), so that info in combination with the primer appearance is why I stopped upping the powder. Would like to hear some other powder recommendations from those who're using these loads...have seen mention of AA #7, etc. I'm not afraid to buy new powders, just don't want to lose sight of the main goal which is to comfortably make PF (790-800 fps would be perfect) and keep the recoil levels as low as possible. And do these things safely.

Hope this pic shows up for you all...my camera's pictures are too big for this site so I put it on photobucket and linked using the "Copy URL" button. So here's some of the brass. The closest row is a few fired from either the PX4 or the STI; not sure which. The back three rows all come from the Beretta 92G. Easy to i.d. because of the firing pin channel imprint these pistols make on the primers. They look like they're flattening to me...the rounded edge radius of the primers are squared off. But maybe you see (or don't see) something I don't?

Hold on, I'll walk out to the range and police that brass up - needed to do it today anyway.

The other 9mm 165 gr thread seemed like it might be about to start going down the tubes, so I thought I'd start a new thread for my question. I'm shooting IDPA, trying out some heavier stuff. I picked up some Xtreme 165's and am tinkering with them. Only pistol powders I have here are 231 and Titegroup, but it looks like I'm going to need more. I can barely make PF with 2.8 grs of TG, getting 771 fps with it and a SD of 9. Would like to be up around 790 to be sure it'll always work, but my WSP primers are flattening. I'm shooting this load through an LTT-built Beretta 92G with a Bar-Sto barrel and getting no keyholing, but I also want to be able to run it in my BUG gun which is a PX4 Compact. With that pistol I'm getting 735 fps and at least 3 out of 10 rounds are keyholing. Also tried this same load in an STI Sentry 5", and it keyholed a couple. My understanding is that keyholing can happen from bullet base deformity, a too-heavy crimp, or too low of velocity. I'm taper-crimping and only removing the flare. Seating to 1.155 OAL. When I tried 231, I was getting primer flattening at 2.9 grs and only 720 fps. I haven't worked with loads that were on the edge of max before, so I could use your help. I have some CCI SP primers here that I could try if they would help, and I could stretch the OAL out by another .010 and see if it would still feed...but I wonder if the real problem is just that I don't have a slow enough powder to get done what I want. Any suggestions?

So my wife ran 100 rounds through the Sentry today with MG .357 125 gr JHP's loaded to 1.143. With the 10-rd mags loaded to capacity, there were a couple of first-round nose-dives into the feed ramp. Downloaded the mags to 9-rds and no more problems. Good accuracy and 100 percent feeding. I'm going to do some OAL adjustments and see if we can get the problem solved, allowing us to load to division capacity. I ran the FP's in the Beretta and had 2 failures to feed near the last few rounds in the mag. Those are the only failures I've had in that pistol. But it seemed like every gun on the range was choking today. One guy was driving loaded 9mm's out of his M&P's barrel with a rod! Another's Kimber in .45 was having repeated FTE's.

Hey Frag, thanks for your info. Yes, I've drop-tested all of the ammo in the Sentry's barrel, and I randomly check it with a case gauge as I'm making it. Crimp is at .378-.379. I've only got another 200 of these Berry's FP's to load, and I'm going to use them up in the Beretta. My wife will be shooting the Sentry this Saturday with MG's and the mags that've been sitting loaded for all this time, so I'll get back with the results afterward.

The sights return to exactly the same spot after the recoil cycle is complete, so I actually like the Recoil Master. A new spring for it is cheaper than a FLGR and spring, too. I've come to believe the real problem may be a combination of the unbroken-in Tripps and the FP Berry's bullets I was using. I've got a whole stash of MG 124's now, so we'll see if everything's better. Thanks all for the help!

After spending several hours searching, I found the answer to my Recoil Master spring question, plus some additional info that I'll pass on here in case it can help someone else. What I was calling the "recoil spring" in the Recoil Master assembly is called the "primary spring" by STI. There are two versions of the Recoil Master for 5" bushing barrels, called 'heavy' and 'light', each using a different primary spring. All 9mm pistols are supposed to use the 'light' version. STI's online catalog suggests replacing the entire Recoil Master assembly every 25,000 rounds and the primary spring every 5,000 rounds. The primary spring is available separately online from Shooter's Connection. In case the link goes bad, the P/N for the light primary spring is 800-043-00, and it costs just over $8.00. The spring may also be available elsewhere, but if it is, I didn't find it. Here's a link: http://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/STI-Recoilmaster-50-Replacement-Spring-P806.aspx Hope this info will save someone else some search time. Joe I IDPA # A49021

Thanks all for the info so far. I've got all 4 mags loaded, hoping a few days of spring compression will do the trick. As far as OAL, these are a load I already had made up for the Beretta, and 1.138" is what I arrived at, at the time. (1.169" is SAAMI max OAL for 9mm, and I usually load fairly long to keep pressures lower.) I drop-tested them in the Sentry and all was well, so I took a couple hundred to the range and that's where the first-round nosedives came to my attention. Any ideas on recoil spring replacements for this pistol? If not, I'll call STI this week. A couple other things -- 1. I had the slide go forward on it's own upon loaded mag insertion at least twice. Didn't notice if it was the same mag. I'm not complaining, but I didn't realize that happened with 1911's. Is it a sign of a problem? 2. A friend of mine has a nearly full case (3000+) of MG .357 diameter 125 gr JHP's , some of which I've bought and am trying in my Beretta due to its oversized bore (mics 0.3575"). I've heard different people say they've used these same bullets in standard 9mm .355 bores. I wonder what you all think about this, safety-wise. If it would work, I could try some of them in my Sentry to see how the profile runs. But if it's a sketchy idea, I want to know. Thanks again for all the help so far. Joe I IDPA # A49021

I've been shooting IDPA in SSP for a couple of years with a Beretta 92, but am trying out the 1911. I bought a used STI Sentry (round count unknown) in good shape and was testing it out with some leftover Berry's FP 124 gr's loaded to an OAL of 1.138 and 1075 fps. Like any bullet type, these fed perfectly in the Beretta and so I'd been using them for the more visible hole they made in the target. I was using brand-new Tripp Cobramags, and had a first-round nose-dive into the feed ramp probably 1 out of every 2 or 3 instances when dropping the slide from slide lock on a full mag. It was not specific to one magazine. There were no other malfunctions of any sort, and the pistol shot well. My fellow shooter commented that the slide didn't seem 'energetic' enough when loading from slide lock and he thought I needed to replace the recoil spring. I'm actually thinking the problem is more with my load than with the spring, but wanted some advice from you all. 1. Supposedly the RecoilMaster in my Sentry is good for 10x the life of the recoil spring, so I'm not worried about the RM, just need to know what recoil spring should be used with it -- I understand that some springs won't fit, but haven't found a solid recommendation. Not knowing the round count on the pistol, I'm going to replace the spring anyway, even if it isn't the problem. 2. I'm down to a few hundred 9mm bullets of any type, so it's past time to order more. If I'm having problems with the FP Berry's, will I also have problems with the MG 124 JHP's? Should I buy CMJ's instead? 3. Anything special I should do or try with the Tripp mags for first-round feed reliability? Joe I IDPA # A49021