Tips for improving transitions

[sifu128]

Hey guys, I have been trying to improve my transitions times and it is going very slowly. I am running eyes up drills, however I was wondering if anyone has had the same problem and was able to overcome this with a or multiple specific drills?

TIA

[Jman]

A quick search in this forum revealed this. Should be helpful.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...s+help&st=0

Jim

[Flyin40]

The eyes snap to the next target spot and now it becomes the shooters job to snap the gun to the spot the eyes are looking at. So how do you get the gun there?? Don't be afraid of being aggressive moving the gun. I'm not talking about be out of control but rather a smooth controlled snap. If you have a 22 pistol take it to the range. Work on snapping the gun. Don't worry about the hits, instead just get the feel of moving the gun.

Flyin

[Flyin40]

I also want to add that the intention of the drill is to get a feel of the gun snapping and only a feel for snapping the gun. Doing this drill very much will lead you to being sloppy on points. One of the drills I used to do in dryfire was I would start out with the gun up and on target. I would then snap my eyes to the next target leaving the gun behind. Once my eyes were on the next target spot I would snap the gun over hard. Then just repeat. Don't forget you have to get a feeling for this drill. You'll need to slow up the gun right before the gun gets to the target spot to keep from overunning it.

Flyin

[benos]

Hey guys, I have been trying to improve my transitions times and it is going very slowly. I am running eyes up drills, however I was wondering if anyone has had the same problem and was able to overcome this with a or multiple specific drills?

TIA

A thread-title only search for "transition" in the Shooting Forums category turned up a boatload of good reading.

Enter "transition" in the search terms, and select the "search titles only" box right underneath, then select "Shooting Forums" in the "search forums" box.

(With the old forum software - the url returned from the search would take you to all the search results. Which doesn't seem to happen with the new software - I'll have to look into that.)

be

[sifu128]

Hey Brian, thank you very much! This is VERY helpful!!

[TWHaz]

Hey guys, I have been trying to improve my transitions times and it is going very slowly. I am running eyes up drills, however I was wondering if anyone has had the same problem and was able to overcome this with a or multiple specific drills?

TIA

"When indexing, the only thing that should move independently of your upper body is your eyeball itself.

In a perfect world... You call the shot as acceptable as it fires. Immediately your eye swivels in its socket in to find the next target. Once your eye finds the next target, from then on it doesn't physically move. But your focus does, as it moves back from the target toward the front sight. So you will be focused on the front sight by the time the sights land on the target. During that entire time, your complete upper body stayed in your index position. Only the eyes move. (Okay, your trigger finger moves too.)

be"

I find that bending the knees to swivel the turret ( complete upper body index ) allows me to stop where I am looking.

If I swivel at the waste I overshoot the target or spot on the target.

You will have to find what works best for you through dry firing and live practice with a timer.

Edited February 15, 2010 by TWHaz

[sifu128]

It is funny that you mention moving the body as I did experience that today. I find it much slower to move just the arms opposed to moving the hips as well. If I try to get over to the target as fast as I can just using my arms I will always end up in the 3 zone on the IDPA target, or just out the border of the 1 and 3 zone.

It is just bizarre how moving with the hips feels so much slower, but on the time it really isn't and you can get much more consistent results.

[TWHaz]

It is funny that you mention moving the body as I did experience that today. I find it much slower to move just the arms opposed to moving the hips as well. If I try to get over to the target as fast as I can just using my arms I will always end up in the 3 zone on the IDPA target, or just out the border of the 1 and 3 zone.

It is just bizarre how moving with the hips feels so much slower, but on the time it really isn't and you can get much more consistent results.

I caught that in a Youtube video of Matt Burkett shooting a stage where his upper body never broke.All his movement was through his knees and hips. It is in Brian's "Practical Shooting Beyound the Fundamentals" also.

I tried it in dry fire and in practice.It was something I had to train myself to do. As I found out through the timer and scores. It works for me in most situations.

[benos]

Think of your body from the waist up as a tank's turret. That's how it should move.

be

[JThompson]

I went looking for a video that really shows it exaggerated and found a pretty good one of Dave.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6VEDF6Fz1A&feature=related

[sifu128]

Hey Brian, fast question. When you shooting something like an El Prez it is quite typical to start with your toes pointed towards both outter targets, and as you shoot swivel your upper body.

Is this how you would shoot it, or would you index your set towards one target and allow your hips to move as well to the second and third target? I am just trying to analyze this a bit deeper with regards to how much time you can save.

I do notice that if I move my hips and knees between the 1st and 3rd target I can stop faster on the target.

TIA

[Flexmoney]

(Not Brian, but I have some cheap advice )

When you can (like stand and shoot, Steel Challenge, etc.), I always want to get my toes pointed to the outsides of the targets (arc) I need swing through.

If your toes are toward a target on the left, and you have to swing to a target on the right that is outside of your right toe...now, you are unstable. You have body weight outside of your knee. Outside of your strength.

Not only have you lessened your base (you now have to balance...more on one foot). You have made it where you aren't driving your turn through your lower body. Now you have to break your upper body to make the twist.

The above is different from your index, or which target you set up on. For instance...

Lets say I am shooting a simple 6 plate rack. Regardless of which target I set up on, I want my left toe pointed to the outside of plate 1, and my right toe pointed to the outside of plate 6.

I might then setup the rest of my body to have a natural point of aim (NPA) on the draw target (plate 1), or on a target that is more neutral to the center of my swing (plate 3 or 4). *If I setup on plate 1, I might have to transition...say...30 degrees off center to the right for plate 6. If I setup my NPA to the middle of the plate rack, I'd only have to go 15g off center...15d left for plate 1 and 15d right for plate 6. (That is still 30d of total swing, but it is less in any one direction...which keeps me more within my base, and strength. Something to consider.)

And, index is different from NPA. If I set my NPA up on the center of the rack, I can still index my body the 15d to the left to draw to plate 1.

All that to say this...

NPA is different from the index. And, neither is really about the toes. The toes are more a part of the stance. The NPA and index are about where the stance is pointed (sorta). NPA being the natural or neutral direction you are pointed.

Brian has some great info on a lot of this. http://www.brianenos...tml#fundamental

A bit of clarity that helped me with the "turn from the waist" thing... To me, turn from the waist sounded like twist at the belly button. But, for me, it is much lower than that. To turn from the waist, I want to do the work in my legs and knees. If I can, I want to drive the shoulders and the hip bones to be square with the new target in transitions.

[sifu128]

That really does help tremendously!!! So if I understand you correctly in the case of the El Pres my feet would be centered with the outter targets, however my body will could be positioned towards t1, as I engage T2 (middle target) I will end up in a netural stance (squarded off), then shift my body as one whole using the legs and knees so I can stop on T3. Now in the event of a reload while I am going back to T1 my entire body would shift again back to that target so my NPA would end up on the middle of the target and start over.

This would eliminate the swing of the arms which would mimic the "belly button" shift?? Am I on point?

I will have to practice this pretty slowly and possibly take some videos and get them posted to be critiqued.

TIA!!

[benos]

I can't relate to the "toe pointing" ideas, because where my toes are pointed never changes, regardless of where the targets are or where my "index" is pointed when I start.

Or in other words, I never change the relationship of my feet to each other. (But I'm not sure if that's what you were talking about.)

Where my index is pointed (including foot position) upon starting will vary with the target setup.

On a plate rack at 10 yards, I'd index around the middle of the rack, and swivel to the left for the first target.

On a plate rack at 25 yards, I'd line up (index) on the first target.

For stages with a large amount of total transitions and easy and hard targets, like the Speed Option for example, If I "could," I'd line up on the hardest target and swivel to the first target to start. But interestingly, on that stage, I shot it better if I didn't line up on the Option plate to start, because to swivel to the far right target to start just put me too out of position - and my draw time and first shot consistency suffered. So for the Speed Option, I got the best results by lining up on the second target to the right to start.

So as usual the best thing is to experiment, and see what each "index relationship to the first target" gets you the best results.

be

[sifu128]

Thanks!! You rock!!

[JThompson]

I can't relate to the "toe pointing" ideas, because where my toes are pointed never changes, regardless of where the targets are or where my "index" is pointed when I start.

Or in other words, I never change the relationship of my feet to each other. (But I'm not sure if that's what you were talking about.)

Where my index is pointed (including foot position) upon starting will vary with the target setup.

On a plate rack at 10 yards, I'd index around the middle of the rack, and swivel to the left for the first target.

On a plate rack at 25 yards, I'd line up (index) on the first target.

For stages with a large amount of total transitions and easy and hard targets, like the Speed Option for example, If I "could," I'd line up on the hardest target and swivel to the first target to start. But interestingly, on that stage, I shot it better if I didn't line up on the Option plate to start, because to swivel to the far right target to start just put me too out of position - and my draw time and first shot consistency suffered. So for the Speed Option, I got the best results by lining up on the second target to the right to start.

So as usual the best thing is to experiment, and see what each "index relationship to the first target" gets you the best results.

be

Good stuff there Brian....

[George Post]

Brian,

Why do you index differantly on 25 yard plate rack then you do on a 10 yard plate rack?

Thanks

George

[benos]

Brian,

Why do you index differantly on 25 yard plate rack then you do on a 10 yard plate rack?

Thanks

George

I change based on the total amount of pivot involved (to shoot the whole rack) due to the two different distances.

At 10 yards, if I line up on the first plate, by the time I get to plate 6 I'll be twisted a bit too much - feeling a bit awkward/off balance.

Also at 10 yards, the draw / get on the first target isn't nearly as difficult as it is at 25. So a little compromise in initial line up isn't a problem.

At 25 yards, a nice smooth first shot is key. And since the total left to right movement is so much less, by the time I'm at the last plate I'm still solid behind the gun.

The above made me think of this... On a Bianchi Plate Rack at 25 yards, draw, shoot the left plate, then holster. And repeat for the next 5 plates. Then let me know if you noticed anything "interesting."

I'll wait until some have tried it and posted before I post was was interesting for me.

be

[George Post]

I'll have to make a plate rack (paper plates on a long stick)anybody know how far apart and what size plates to use?

George

[Flexmoney]

The plates are 8in rounds.

Somebody else will have to post the spacing. The Bianchi plates, as I recall, have a bit more space between them than the plates we often see at most clubs.

(If somebody doesn't post the spacing real quick, try a search. I know we have talked about it before.)

[kaiserb]

The plates are 8in rounds.

Somebody else will have to post the spacing. The Bianchi plates, as I recall, have a bit more space between them than the plates we often see at most clubs.

(If somebody doesn't post the spacing real quick, try a search. I know we have talked about it before.)

Deluxe Bianchi Plate Rack.

•Includes Six-8" round plates made of rifle/shotgun (500 Brinell) strength steel.

•Plates are 20" from center to center.

•Total length of plate rack is 118 inches and weighs 390 lbs.

•Bullet proof linkage. Reset linkage is made entirely of 2" thick steel flatbar and 1" solid round bar.

•Assembles and breaks down in minutes.

•Plates can be easily removed without tools.

•Manual reset. Unit includes 50 feet of 1 inch wide strapping with sewn loop at end.

[George Post]

Wow, thanks!

I may need time to try this as the range still has about 8 inches of winter on it.

Thanks

George

[Flexmoney]

Steve Anderson had a paper plate rack setup in his dry-fire area (basement).

[Nik Habicht]

I once built one for range use with paperplates: Took a hunk of 1x4 as the cross bar, and drilled a hole at each end and through an end of a 1x2. Attached the 1x2s with a bolt and a wingnut, so they could easily be loosened and folded inline for transport. Set-up just involved putting the 1x2s into two target stands, tightening the wingnuts and stapling up some plates.....