.223 Reloading - Cases Sticking in Chamber

[Graham Smith]

OK. I'm stumped. I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. I'm just starting to reload .223 and I'm having trouble with cases sticking in the rifle (AR-15) chamber.

Resizing with a Lee full length die on a single station press

Swaging with an RCBS combo on the same press

Trim, debur, and chamfer with Possum Hollow and Wilson tools

Checking with a Dillon case guage

Prime, powder, seat, crimp with Lee dies on a Dillon 550B

Check again with a Dillon case gauge

Check OAL against commercial ammo

Everything looks fine except that a good 20% of cases are getting stuck in the chamber when I cycle them through my 5.56 AR-15 (without a firing pin).

The only thing that I'm not doing is running the cases through a neck sizer. Could that be the problem?

Would it help to set up a separate toolhead for the 550 with a full length sizer in station 1 and a neck sizer in station 2?

[M ammo]

hmmmm trim the brass shorter... make sure they are not even close to the max acceptable length.

I cannot remember how short I trim mine,,, but they are short and I don't have the same problem you have,, now,

Jim M ammo

[DougCarden]

Look at the stuck cases, where are they rubbing? If it is the rear of the case then you are not resizing down enough. If it is the front part of the case you may need to trim them. The case gauge is your friend here. I have been where you are, and I needed to cam the sizing die down a little more.

Keep at it!

Good luck,

DougC

[Dan Sierpina]

Take a look at the shoulder area of the case. If for some reason you have the seater adjusted too deep, you might be getting a "mushroom" where the shoulder meets the case body. What are the cases trimmed to for length? I'd also skip the crimp!

Edited December 23, 2009 by Dan Sierpina

[AlamoShooter]

The Possum trimmer only does the case from the shoulder out. if the overall length of the case is over 1.760+ as in the case stretched in the body and not the neck. = it will be hard to see in the Dillon case gage. =use your reading glasses to look close.

I know this the hard was after using the Possum and the Dillon case gauge....And traveling to 1,000+ miles to shoot a match and end up with two stuck cases last year.

I have a hard time finding the the cases that are too long with the dillon gage.

You can 'pull' the rounds that do not fit in the gun and check the over all case length.

Oh drop them in the case gage upside down too, that will tell you if the base is blown out.

My fired cases before I size them will fit in my case gage most of the time.

Edited December 23, 2009 by AlamoShooter

[Graham Smith]

After looking carefully at the stuck rounds, I think it may be that the bullets are not seated deep enough for the specific ogive of that bullet. IOW, it's the projectile that is sticking not the case.

Being new to rifle reloading, I can see I've a lot to learn. For example, I had fully expected that a case gage would be an actual "chamber gage", like the ones for a pistol. That is, something that would allow you to see exactly how a cartridge fits in the chamber. I can see now that is not the case. Does someone actually make something like this or is this where something like the Hornady Bullet Comparator comes in?

[saibot]

I'm in the same boat as you. They drop right into the Dillon case gauge but stick in the chamber. For me it was my sizing die not sizing enough. I moved it down and one of my dies works and the other does not. If I had it to do over again I'd get the small base die.

Reloading...the learning curve is steeeeeep!

Good luck!

[BPiatt]

right now you're guessing at what's wrong.

Here's another trick..

take a loaded round (no need to put powder if you want to be extra safe)

take a magic marker/sharpie and mark the entire case and bullet.

gently place it the the chamber and let the bolt slam forward.

gently extract the case 3/4 of the way, keeping the bullet tip in the chamber, let it slam shut again.

do this 4 or 5 times, enough to mark the case.

Now gently extract the round and examine where the sharpie is rubbed off. This will tell you your exact problem.

Then go to work on fixing that problem.

[BPiatt]

After looking carefully at the stuck rounds, I think it may be that the bullets are not seated deep enough for the specific ogive of that bullet. IOW, it's the projectile that is sticking not the case.

Being new to rifle reloading, I can see I've a lot to learn. For example, I had fully expected that a case gage would be an actual "chamber gage", like the ones for a pistol. That is, something that would allow you to see exactly how a cartridge fits in the chamber. I can see now that is not the case. Does someone actually make something like this or is this where something like the Hornady Bullet Comparator comes in?

If you use a Full Length die all you need is an RCBS Precision MIC,Product # 88304 - PRECISION MIC .223, this tells you if your sizing die is down enough. Place a case/round in die, dial it down, when it reads "0" you're at a perfect case length. It is guaranteed to fit in any chamber. (we're talking sizing, not length) I actually try for .001 under "0".

You can also take a fired case from your gun, put it in the die and it will tell you what your gun chamber is. Most of my chambers are from .002 to .005 over zero, meaning if you take a zero sized case and fire it, it expands .002 to .005 every time it's fired. Military chambers can be much higher. When someone says they neck size only, (ususally only done in bolt guns), then they are leaving thier case at or just under their chamber dimension and only squeezing the neck back to spec.

Another use of this die is when you are buying loaded ammo. Many military rounds, especially the european, inexpensive stuff is actually sized UNDER the zero point. (like .005 to .010 under) They do this so that it fits and fires in any gun, no matter how dirty it is. They don't care about case life or accuracy..... they just want the gun to go bang every time. a case that is sized too much will give poor accuracy, pop primers out of the case when fired, or give "pressure signs" on the primer but it's not actually pressure. It's the primer coming out of the case too much when it fires. This is one of the reasons they really crimp the primers in, it allows them to size the case more.

For what it's worth, I use a Dillon power trimmer. Once adjusted, you run the case in this die with the power trimmer running and it sizes and trims to length all in one process. Chamfer the case mouth and you're good to go.

good luck

Edited December 23, 2009 by BPiatt

[Graham Smith]

take a magic marker/sharpie and mark the entire case and bullet.

I had pretty much come to the same conclusion, but thanks for the suggestion.

I'm also thinking that I might want to up the amount of lube prior to sizing, to make sure it is indeed sizing the whole case. One suggestion I saw elsewhere was to lube the outside of every few cases with motor oil and clean them afterwards. Seems a bit overkill to me.

On the upside, once I get this pile of brass prepped, I shouldn't have to go thru this goat-rope again for a while. Kind of makes me think I should have bought a case of re-manufactured AA ammo to start with and used that brass to start my reloading. Live and learn.

[Dan Sierpina]

I'm also thinking that I might want to up the amount of lube prior to sizing, to make sure it is indeed sizing the whole case. One suggestion I saw elsewhere was to lube the outside of every few cases with motor oil and clean them afterwards. Seems a bit overkill to me.

Graham, what kind of lube are you using? I think most of us use the Dillon spray lube, which we spray on a bag full of brass and shake it up. All the brass gets lubed that way. Bottleneck cases need to be lubed, even with carbide dies! Carbide rifle dies are for wear, not lube free sizing.

[kgunz11]

Use a small base/body die. Should cure your problems.

[Graham Smith]

This seems to be paralleling another thread having to do with the RCBS X-Die.

Regarding lube: I'm using Hornady One-Shot lube and I put a handlful of brass in a big ziptop bag and squirt in a few shots of lube then shake well, then toss the cases into an old shoebox. Repeat a few times till the pile is big enough and then start resizing.

Regarding marking the cases: After finding one that stick consistently, I coated the top third with marker and rechambered it. It's getting marked up at the base of shoulder. I think that is the correct term, it is the area of the case where it angles out, about 1/8 inch above the body.

The resizing die is going all the way down to meet the shellplate, or so close that it's hard to tell that it's not meeting. I've been thinking I may need to turn this into a two station operation. I'm currently doing this on a single stage press but I could move it to a separate tool head on my 550. Station one could be my current Lee die to take the worst of it out and station two could be the tighter RCBC small base die.

What seems particularly odd is that this barrel is chambered for 5.56, just so I could help reduce this kind of problem.

[gm iprod]

I had a similar problem, decided to order the Dillon Dies, accidently ordered the Dillon Carbide dies, holy crap that was an expensive mistake. Never regretted it, everything goes in and out of everything I own and or load for.

Make sure the size die nudges the shellplate without a case in the die, then, when a case is exerting pressure on the shellplate it will size correctly. It should just bump the shellplate, you can feel what is going on. Also check it again when seating a bullet and sizing a case if you are using a 550 or something similar.

[VegasOPM]

I had that problem a lot when I first started reloading for .223. It ended up that the full length resizer wasn't turned down enough. The neck was being sized, but the shoulder/ neck junction wasn't. As soon as I read the instructions included with the die, all was fixed.

[Graham Smith]

I think I have found the problem - insufficient leverage for thicker cases. I have two workbenches. One has the 550 on a strong mount which is a pretty sturdy setup. The other has a Lee Challenger single stage press which is fine for most things but not, I think, for this.

After thinking about it for a bit yesterday morning, I went home and experimented with a spare toolhead and put the sizing die on it. What I found was that the extra leverage I could get with the 550 combined with the added height gave me leverage where I needed it most - at the bottom of the stroke. After sizing about twenty cases this way, I finished prepping them, seated bullets and tried them in the gun. All but one were fine and that one was only just a tad "sticky".

After this, I went back to the single stage press and examined it again and found what I believe is the main issue. When I reach the bottom of the stroke with the Challenger press, the handle is way down at a point where I have no leverage. The 550 on the other hand, is up higher and has a handle which starts off to the side and, at the bottom if it's stroke, is at a point where I have nearly maximum leverage. As a result, cases which were difficult to size in the Lee press are much less of a problem with the Dillon. Like I said, leverage.

So, for now, I'm going to do the resizing as a single step on the 550 and I'm probably going to do the same with my EGW .40 "U" die. Time to rearrange the work area - again.

[AlamoShooter]

ya know you need to check your bullet seat die. = it could be pushing a crimp /Bulge in the brass.

you want to put just a piece of sized brass cycled into the bullet seater with out a bullet. you want zero pressure in the seat die.

Most seat dies can be screwed down to provide a crimp , unless you plan to load full auto rounds you most likely do not want any crimp.

I had some brass that got missed and it was a bit too long and contacted the die and caused a bulge at the shoulder

You r leverage idea does not make any sense to me, if you get a full cycles the force/leverage does not mater

[Graham Smith]

if you get a full cycles the force/leverage does not mater

I don't believe I was getting a full cycle every time because on the tighter fitting cases there was simply not enough leverage on the bottom of the stroke to get the ram all the way up.

If you have not used a Lee Challenger press, the throw distance on the handle is pretty long. The handle starts nearly vertical and swings thru an arc of about 160°. Mounted on a normal height bench and sitting on a normal height stool, at the bottom of the stroke, you are leaning down quite a bit and all your leverage is gone. If I change where that press is located and how it is mounted, I can probably get rid of this problem, but now that I have tried using my 550 as (essentially) a single stage press for the sizing, the problem may be resolved.

As to checking the seating die, that's also on my list once I've got a bunch of brass fully prepped. However, I did run a couple dozen cases through the whole process yesterday and they all sit in the chamber just fine.