Type 2 Focus Questions

[JT Johnson]

If you have multiple paper targets at the same distance that are just out of reach of a type 1 shooting focus what is the focus that one would use for this array?

For multiple shots on the same target (uspsa target) is it possible to do multiple shots on the same target using a type 2 focus? Or does one use a type 2 for the first shot and then shift to a type 3 for the second shot. Acquire the second target and shoot using a a type 2 then shift to type 3 etc.

Thanks,

Josh

I've realized at the last match I shot last weekend how difficult even super close targets are to shoot with a type 1 when your off balance/tense.

[Jake Di Vita]

Type 1 is single target at close range, Type 2 is multiple targets at close range.

I myself usually use a Type 3 focus on about 7-15 yards.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by shifting types between shots...Could you maybe explain a little further?

[tightloop]

JT

You are making this harder than it needs to be. Just get on those sights and get that visual input and go from there.

[JT Johnson]

Sorry if I made my post hard to understand, I was quite tired last night.

If you have an array of USPSA targets that will each receive 2 shots each and this distance is just out of type 1 focus range what do you see on the second shot on each target? Do you continue to look through the sights for the second followup shot or do you shift your vision back to the sights for the second shot?

Josh

[Jake Di Vita]

I think the best way to put it is you have to see what you NEED to see to make the shot.

[Flexmoney]

JT,

I just re-read the Type 2 focus stuff in Brian's book (p66). He covers this pretty well, I think?

[Jake Di Vita]

Or you could do that.

Sometimes I'm a little slow...should have thought of that faster.

[mcoliver]

IMO, this is entirely up to how your vision works. If you're the type who can continuously shift focus between near and far, then by all means use it, if it can guarantee that you can call your shots consistently. Personally, with prescriptions, I can't draw my eyes back to the front sight without causing a strain. But I've learned I can shoot just as fast and accurate even when the sights are a bit fuzzy.

I'm curious though. If you hit your target on the first shot and was able to call your shot, why do think you need to shift focus?

[JT Johnson]

I would like to thank everyone for the replies. I would of responded sooner, but I've been the process of moving from cable broadband to dsl and playing texas hold em'.

I totally missed p66 in the Book. Hopefully if the weather isn't to bad I can make the range on Sunday and experiment.

Josh

[Flexmoney]

Keep us posted on your progress.

[diehli]

Brian does an OUTSTANDING job of describing the different types of focus he uses, but ultimately it's YOU that has to determine what type of focus works best for you at different distances and different arrays.

I find that just as I'm breaking the shot on a LD target I need to switch back to target focus to be able to call my shot... in the rare instances that I call my shot, that is. Coming from a target focus to a sight focus is harder than the reverse for me. Basically, for me there are different levels of recognition of the sight alignment while looking past the sights at the target. On tight/LD shots, I bring my focus back to the sight to make sure that everything is perfectly aligned, find the break spot on the trigger, and go back to the target as I'm moving my finger through the break.

HOWEVER... though I realize that this is how my focus works right now, that doesn't mean that it "works." When I get to be better at this stuff it will probably be completely different.

[Flexmoney]

"Just your sights as they appear on the target is all the information your brain needs for it to know how difficult the shot is." p73 - PSBF

If you are new to this stuff, then my guess is that your body might not have the experience that you need to be capable of shooting from your index.

You might need to stick to Type 3 sight focus until you know.

Any time your aren't sure...use more vision.

[JT Johnson]

"Just your sights as they appear on the target is all the information your brain needs for it to know how difficult the shot is." p73 - PSBF

If you are new to this stuff, then my guess is that your body might not have the experience that you need to be capable of shooting from your index.

You might need to stick to Type 3 sight focus until you know.

Any time your aren't sure...use more vision.

Well I wasn't able to make it to the range this weekend, looks like all I can do is dry fire for awhile.

I've pretty much been shooting nothing but a type3, except for arrays with arms length distance targets.

Sounds like I'll have to do awareness exercises in bryan's book to develop type2 shooting ability. Hopefully I'll get some freak warm weather soon.

Josh

[benos]

Probably one of the most important reasons for defining five focus types is just so you know there isn't one way to do everything. But definitions are limiting if you begin from them. It's always best to start from the beginning. Which in this case is - shoot good points as quickly as possible. Then notice what you do to do that. Now you're your own best teacher.

be

[diehli]

Flex quoting BE and BE said it all... shocking!!! BTW, Brian's point was the point I was trying to make.

[old506]

So, when shooting with a Type 2 focus are you calling your shots? And if you are how? Your not seeing your sights lift (crisply if at all), Right? Your focus is on the target and you are seeing through the sights and relying on your index or npa to be where it needs to be. So afterwords are you expecting two-alpha to be on the target because you saw what you needed to see and you let everything else take over?

[Duke Nukem]

How about a cheat sheet for what the 5 types of focus are?

[Jake Di Vita]

Calling the shot means knowing where the bullet went the instant it left the barrel.

Notice it says nothing about the sights. Use any and all feedback available. The sights normally provide the best feedback, but they may not always be required to accurately call a shot.

[old506]

So is your focus on the target so pinpoint and your faith in your index so reliable that you are basically calling the shot because you seen what you needed to see?

"The sights normally provide the best feedback, but they may not always be required to accurately call a shot." So if not your sights(in this case), your focus on the target and trust in you index is? Would you be able to run a stage using Type 2 targets with a Type 2 focus and then afterword be able to call where each shot is?

Calling the shot means knowing where the bullet went the instant it left the barrel.

Notice it says nothing about the sights. Use any and all feedback available. The sights normally provide the best feedback, but they may not always be required to accurately call a shot.

[Sam]

Calling the shot means knowing where the bullet went the instant it left the barrel.

-Jake

That's the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, no matter which sight focus we choose.

[old506]

Yes, so it is the combination of your index and focus? Or something else, when the sights aren't involved.

Calling the shot means knowing where the bullet went the instant it left the barrel.

-Jake

That's the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, no matter which sight focus we choose.

[Jake Di Vita]

Yes absolutely...to all of the above.

Try to not rely on only one source of feedback to shoot. In general I believe the more feedback we get and acknowledge, the better we generally operate. Feedback comes from a verity (typo?) of sources, the most common of which being the sights. Use a combination of the sights, index, looking over the slide, proprioception, and anything else you can get information from to know where that bullet is going. In my opinion, shooting a type 2 array is very doable with a sufficiently trained index, while being able to score your hits real time. That doesn't mean it is necessarily the best way of doing it, but certainly doable.

How does the saying go? Whereever you are, be all there.

[waxman]

Very interesting. I am not sure what the types of focus are, but I have been noticing something lately. For the first time in my shooting career, I am doing a dry fire regiment. Of course I did alot of reload practice in the past, but never actual dry firing on USPSA targets. I honestly never saw the purpose, when live fire was just as accesable. Ok, my point. In the last few nights of doing BS's program. I have noticed a weird focus developing, when I am really pushing the par times. I am seeing the target and sight, with almost equal clarity, both a bit fuzzy. My vision is almost looking over the front sight to where it is on the target. I am not sure if this is good or bad, but it sure seems faster. In the past I would force myself to get complete front sight focus and then kinda blur in and out of the target. I know this is hard to understand. If it was not -10 windchill right now, I would love to see how this focus works with live fire.Just throwing this out there to see if anyone else has noticed this, Heck this might be one of the focus types you are refering to. I really need to get some books.

[old506]

What do you mean by "That doesn't mean it is necessarily the best way of doing it, but certainly doable."? Do you mean that it is better to go with a Type 3, going from target to sights? Even for the close targets?

Yes absolutely...to all of the above.

Try to not rely on only one source of feedback to shoot. In general I believe the more feedback we get and acknowledge, the better we generally operate. Feedback comes from a verity (typo?) of sources, the most common of which being the sights. Use a combination of the sights, index, looking over the slide, proprioception, and anything else you can get information from to know where that bullet is going. In my opinion, shooting a type 2 array is very doable with a sufficiently trained index, while being able to score your hits real time. That doesn't mean it is necessarily the best way of doing it, but certainly doable.

How does the saying go? Whereever you are, be all there.

[old506]

The difference is that I am talking about a crisp target focus and using nothing else but your index or natural point of aim. Maybe like firing at a target while looking through a paper towel roll, where you can only see the pinpoint of the Azone where you want to hit and use your index or natural point of aim and trust it.

Same goes here, it is about 18 outside and I am digging in to THE book.

Very interesting. I am not sure what the types of focus are, but I have been noticing something lately. For the first time in my shooting career, I am doing a dry fire regiment. Of course I did alot of reload practice in the past, but never actual dry firing on USPSA targets. I honestly never saw the purpose, when live fire was just as accesable. Ok, my point. In the last few nights of doing BS's program. I have noticed a weird focus developing, when I am really pushing the par times. I am seeing the target and sight, with almost equal clarity, both a bit fuzzy. My vision is almost looking over the front sight to where it is on the target. I am not sure if this is good or bad, but it sure seems faster. In the past I would force myself to get complete front sight focus and then kinda blur in and out of the target. I know this is hard to understand. If it was not -10 windchill right now, I would love to see how this focus works with live fire.Just throwing this out there to see if anyone else has noticed this, Heck this might be one of the focus types you are refering to. I really need to get some books.