Bill M Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Is Nosler Brass worth the extra money for the 260 Rem? I would like to try my hand at some practical rifle shooting, and possibly a class this winter, so would like to get at least 500 pieces that were similar enough for a batch. The Nosler seems to be the most expensive brass out there, but maybe it worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Freeman Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Lapua 243 necked up or 308 necked down is a much better option... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Lots of folks like Win 7-08 brass necked down. You can neck .243 Lapua up, but I would not recommend necking .308 down. Nothing wrong with Rem 260 brass if you sort it a bit. Terry Cross kicked everyone's ass for years with Rem brass. I wouldn't cry when I tossed a bag of Rem brass, but Nosler might make me shed a tear. For practical/tactical rifle shooting, Rem is as good as you'll ever need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M118LR Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 You might want to use the Nosler brass to check loads with. That way when you are testing loads you know that you are using good brass. I have been using REM brass in my 260 for a while now. It is good brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Testing loads for what? I mean, the volumetric difference between the Rem brass and Nosler brass is going to make the loads change. It will change the amount of neck tension due to the difference of the neck thickness and annealing. Or am I misunderstanding what you mean by "testing loads"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam B Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 I have had good luck necking up lapua 243 brass or necking down 7mm08 winchester brass, the winchester was quite a bit cheaper, I did neck turned both after necking them up/down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 I have had good luck necking up lapua 243 brass or necking down 7mm08 winchester brass, the winchester was quite a bit cheaper, I did neck turned both after necking them up/down +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 I bought 100 pieces of the 280 Ackley Improved brass just to have some properly marked stuff. Very nice and concentric. All weighed almost exactly the same. Necks were beautiful as well as the rest of the brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Tod, you lost me, 280 or 260? Brass from what manu? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Nosler makes 280AI brass. I was speaking in terms of the quality of their brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Oh yeah, Nosler makes some great brass, no doubt, but at over a $ per piece, it's not the stuff I'd recommend for the guy that shoots a lot or shoots in any kind of lost brass match. For extreme accuracy it will save you a lot of brass prep, but extreme accuracy is not required for practical rifle shooting where the targets are way more than MOA in size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Oh yeah, Nosler makes some great brass, no doubt, but at over a $ per piece, it's not the stuff I'd recommend for the guy that shoots a lot or shoots in any kind of lost brass match. For extreme accuracy it will save you a lot of brass prep, but extreme accuracy is not required for practical rifle shooting where the targets are way more than MOA in size. Agreed. I've always just used the R-P stuff and taken my prep to the highest level. One thing I notice is that the R-P seems to be much softer than my 7-08 Win. I get about 4-5 loads out of it til the primer pockets get loose and see bulges near the web. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill M Posted December 14, 2009 Author Share Posted December 14, 2009 Agreed. I've always just used the R-P stuff and taken my prep to the highest level. One thing I notice is that the R-P seems to be much softer than my 7-08 Win. I get about 4-5 loads out of it til the primer pockets get loose and see bulges near the web. Decide on the R-P brass can buy extra to cull. Do you anneal your brass or is that a waste of time for this sport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Oh yeah, Nosler makes some great brass, no doubt, but at over a $ per piece, it's not the stuff I'd recommend for the guy that shoots a lot or shoots in any kind of lost brass match. For extreme accuracy it will save you a lot of brass prep, but extreme accuracy is not required for practical rifle shooting where the targets are way more than MOA in size. Agreed. I've always just used the R-P stuff and taken my prep to the highest level. One thing I notice is that the R-P seems to be much softer than my 7-08 Win. I get about 4-5 loads out of it til the primer pockets get loose and see bulges near the web. +1 That is EXACTLY why I like to neck down 7-08 brass. I also went the necked up .243 Lapua route. After 2 firings the doughnuts were so bad they had to be cut out. Too much effort and time for such a little gain. My Winny brass shoots .5MOA so I'm happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Don't neck down to 260. I have a few friends that have tried that and you can get a donut in the bottom of the neck that causes issues. Either buy the Nosler or use the 243Lapua and neck that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Kwiat Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 (edited) From what my research tells me: Necking down from .308 is OK as long as you neck turn (which most .243 users that are necking up do as well). It's all about controlling the variables... For me who is rebarreling from .308 to .260, it's a question of what brass I have on hand (Lapua .308). I'll use Rem .260 to work up my initial loads but will neck down 400 Lapua .308 cases (neck turning as I go). General consesnsus seems to be to neck down in two steps, 7mm, then .260. More work than necking up .243? Probably but you're only doing it once and not across 1000s of cases. Nosler? Price point of Lapua is bad enough. Edited January 10, 2010 by Ken Kwiat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bret Heidkamp Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 From what my research tells me: Necking down from .308 is OK as long as you neck turn (which most .243 users that are necking up do as well). Ken, if you step down a case, you'll get a donut and you need to inside neck ream to get rid of it, not neck turn the exterior of the neck. If you ignore it, you'll get seriously high pressures. Anytime you step down a case, you make the neck walls thicker, thus you have to ream to get back to a normal thickness. Too thick = superman grip on the bullet and possibly a chambering issue where the power of the bolt's camming action crushes the neck into the bullet. Not good. Stepping up a case doesn't create a donut issue, and makes the neck walls thinner. You can lightly outside neck turn to clean up the concentricity and you're good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Kwiat Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 (edited) Hey Bret, When we chatted at ShotShow, all of this is works-in-progress for me so I appreciate the tips/cautions. If I were starting from scratch in terms of "no brass", I'd probably just start with the Nosler and not worry about it. Or, I would have started with Lapua .243 and neck up as you suggest. The problem is I have 1000+ new Lapua .308 cases. I am using Rem .260 brass for my initial load development. Once I switch to .260, I doubt I'll be shooting much .308. So I've got the Sinclair premium neck turning kit coming. It includes an ID mandrel and an expander die in addition to the OD cutting head. I've read most of what I can find on SnipersHide and 6mmB For example: http://www.6mmbr.com/neckturningbasics.html By the way, before I totally hijack the thread, here's a related SH thread to the original question:SnipersHide search for "donuts" If you're willing to do a sanity check to my thinking, read on... So my expectation is the following steps (for a new .308 Lapua case): 1. Necking down: via .260 Redding F/L S-type Comp die I talked to the gurus at Redding at ShotShow. I asked if I should neck down in 2 steps, e.g., 7mm08 then .260 -- their advice was that it should not be necessary as long as I'm lubed enough. I like lube... 2. Trim/chamfer (via Girard trimmer) the case -- to get the nice internal neck chamfer that the Girard produces and even out any length deviations in the lot. 3. Neck ID: Run it through the expander die 4. Neck turn (with the 6.5mm appropriate mandrel again supporting ID of neck) using adequate lube outside and inside the neck So I'll follow the 6mmbr and other advice, neck turning as close to the shoulder that I can get without digging into the shoulder. My expectation is that the inside neck diameter should be pretty smooth. If not, I've heard of a tip where you wrap a neck brush with steel wool to "polish" the inside. Granted, this won't eliminate a severe donut if caused by Step 1. above. The Redding and Sinclair techs I've consulted don't think this will happen (as well as some other shooters I've consulted). Am I in for an unpleasant surprise? Worst case, I'll get a Wilson Inside Neck Reamer in the appropriate diameter. I'm also planning on measuring and adjusting dimensions as I work through it (neck sizing bushings, measure neck thickness with a sinclair neck sorting tool + a micrometer, blueprint from GAP) to get ideal neck tension (and concentric necks). And, as much of this that I can do while watching Tivo'd 24 and DollHouse episodes, the better... Again, thanks for your advice and apologies for the thread hijack. Figured there may be others that are going through the same learning curve. k2 Edited January 28, 2010 by Ken Kwiat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bret Heidkamp Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Hi Ken, Yeah, once you shoot 260 your 308 will be up for sale! Basically, the donut thing is just because it is tough to outside turn all the extra brass thickness away when you neck something down. The brass gets thicker vs. when you neck up this doesn't happen. Since it is tough to get the OD turner all the way into the shoulder, that little bit of thickness becomes a donut. Thus the need to ream vs. turn. Hope that helps!! I'll buy your new unfired Lapua 308 cases - PM me. Then you can start with the right cases! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob01 Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Or you could just rebarrel to and shoot the 6.5 Creedmoor and get good brass and not have to worry about necking up or down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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