Why are my 9's sticking in the chamber?

[JWBaldree]

I'm starting to lose my sense of humor over this. Every so often I get a 9mm that goes bang but the case expands and sticks in the chamber. The case has to be pounded out with a range rod. The brass ahead of the case web expands to .395, everything else looks normal. Details of load are: Mixed hedstamp brass, WSP primers, 3.4 or 3.7 Titegroup (3.4 in Glock 34, 3.7 in subguns), 147 gn Berry's bullet RN, seated to 1.15, crimped at .378. All ammo loaded on a Dillon 550, same as I've been doing for 27 years. Every 100th round charge is weighed when refilling primers, no more than .1 gn variation. Am I just getting "tired" brass, because some of it is probably old, or is something else screwy? Does Titegroup cause the problem, because I never had it before when using 231 or Bulseye. Problem has been occuring over the last half year, and in 9mm only.

Thanks in advance for any advice,

Jim Baldree

Phoenix, AZ

[JThompson]

edit

Edited November 4, 2009 by JThompson

[Jeff686]

I'm starting to lose my sense of humor over this. Every so often I get a 9mm that goes bang but the case expands and sticks in the chamber. The case has to be pounded out with a range rod. The brass ahead of the case web expands to .395, everything else looks normal. Details of load are: Mixed hedstamp brass, WSP primers, 3.4 or 3.7 Titegroup (3.4 in Glock 34, 3.7 in subguns), 147 gn Berry's bullet RN, seated to 1.15, crimped at .378. All ammo loaded on a Dillon 550, same as I've been doing for 27 years. Every 100th round charge is weighed when refilling primers, no more than .1 gn variation. Am I just getting "tired" brass, because some of it is probably old, or is something else screwy? Does Titegroup cause the problem, because I never had it before when using 231 or Bulseye. Problem has been occuring over the last half year, and in 9mm only.

Thanks in advance for any advice,

Jim Baldree

Phoenix, AZ

maybe it is the barrel/chamber ?

Edited November 4, 2009 by Jeff686

[kgunz11]

The subgunned brass is the problem. Learned it the hard way myself. If you're using the same brass in both, you might have issues. I have a large ammo can of practice ammo now.

[mikeAZ]

I'm in Apache Junction, AZ and shoot regularly at Rio Salado... A "cure" for the brass problem? is the Lee "U" die sold by EGW or Lee (about $27 shipped to your door).... That said, I have ran into a "tight" chamber .... I have the Clymer 9mm finish chamber reamer if you want to check the chamber? E-mail me if you need help. Mike

[lugnut]

Make sure chamber is clean

Use Lee FCD

Use cartridge gauge on all rounds to see if some are oversize

I'd be really surprised if rounds that pass the cartridge gauge get stuck!

[98sr20ve]

Worn out extractor? Seems logical to look at that. Do you case guage your rounds? Don't just throw a FCD on the press. Find out what is wrong with the ammo/gun and fix that. Post sizing every round is a band aid.

[lugnut]

Worn out extractor? Seems logical to look at that. Do you case guage your rounds? Don't just throw a FCD on the press. Find out what is wrong with the ammo/gun and fix that. Post sizing every round is a band aid.

The FCD WILL help rounds pass the gauge...

[98sr20ve]

Worn out extractor? Seems logical to look at that. Do you case guage your rounds? Don't just throw a FCD on the press. Find out what is wrong with the ammo/gun and fix that. Post sizing every round is a band aid.

The FCD WILL help rounds pass the gauge...

So will using a case gauge and figure out why they didn't pass. Then fix the cause.

[lugnut]

Worn out extractor? Seems logical to look at that. Do you case guage your rounds? Don't just throw a FCD on the press. Find out what is wrong with the ammo/gun and fix that. Post sizing every round is a band aid.

The FCD WILL help rounds pass the gauge...

So will using a case gauge and figure out why they didn't pass. Then fix the cause.

Sometimes brass is larger from being fired from different chambers from Glocks, etc.- the FCD will resolve this 98% of the time. I think we are both suggesting to make sure the cartridges pass the gauge regardless. If the OP doesn't use the FCD and has "extra" ammo that doesn't pass the gauge then so be it.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: Make sure the Dillon sizer die is touching the shellplate. I used to use the EGW "U" die but just use the Dillon die now. I reload for 3 different types of guns including an Open pistol now and have not had a problem. Thanks, Eric

[98sr20ve]

Sometimes brass is larger from being fired from different chambers from Glocks, etc.- the FCD will resolve this 98% of the time. I think we are both suggesting to make sure the cartridges pass the gauge regardless. If the OP doesn't use the FCD and has "extra" ammo that doesn't pass the gauge then so be it.

If you measure the FCD it is ussually .007" LARGER then the standard Lee Sizing Die. No way it can possible fix a sizing issue when it's less effective then the Lee Sizer. It's fixing other things that are better fixed the right way not with a post sizing.

[lugnut]

Sometimes brass is larger from being fired from different chambers from Glocks, etc.- the FCD will resolve this 98% of the time. I think we are both suggesting to make sure the cartridges pass the gauge regardless. If the OP doesn't use the FCD and has "extra" ammo that doesn't pass the gauge then so be it.

If you measure the FCD it is ussually .007" LARGER then the standard Lee Sizing Die. No way it can possible fix a sizing issue when it's less effective then the Lee Sizer. It's fixing other things that are better fixed the right way not with a post sizing.

Hey- I'm not here peddling the FCD... I'm just telling you what it actually does. I've reloaded many, many thousands of rounds with a regular set of dies and I'm sure I'm doing it correctly. When I find an occasional round or two that wouldn't pass the gauge 99% of the time the rounds will pass after the FCD. Go figure.

Edited November 13, 2009 by lugnut

[G-ManBart]

Sometimes brass is larger from being fired from different chambers from Glocks, etc.- the FCD will resolve this 98% of the time. I think we are both suggesting to make sure the cartridges pass the gauge regardless. If the OP doesn't use the FCD and has "extra" ammo that doesn't pass the gauge then so be it.

If you measure the FCD it is ussually .007" LARGER then the standard Lee Sizing Die. No way it can possible fix a sizing issue when it's less effective then the Lee Sizer. It's fixing other things that are better fixed the right way not with a post sizing.

Hey- I'm not here peddling the FCD... I'm just telling you what it actually does. I've reloaded many, many thousands of rounds with a regular set of dies and I'm sure I'm doing it correctly. When I find an occasional round or two that wouldn't pass the gauge 99% of the time the rounds will pass after the FCD. Go figure.

Not to put words into anybody's mouth, but I think what he's saying is that you can put a bandaid on the problem after it's happened (FCD) or avoid the problem before it happens (U-die). Typically you run into these problems less with 9mm than straight-walled cases because it's a tapered case and that influences all sorts of things like how chambers are cut, how dies are manufactured etc. In other words, run a U-die and you probably won't have that occasional round or two that won't pass the gauge in the first place.

I get why some folks don't want to run them on a 550, or other four-position press, but on anything with an extra station where you can run something like a Dillon die first, it's barely noticable (extra effort) and you don't have problems with the case not lining up with the dies (happens sometimes with a U-die in station #1).

I've loaded into the hundreds of thousands of rounds now and I'll use a U-die in some applications, but you couldn't pay me to use a FCD for anything. R,

[DougCarden]

If I remember correctly, the Lee factory taper crimp die was made by request of customers that loaded their own lead bullets that they cast. They had problems with the bullets bulging the cases and the rounds would not always case gauge or chamber correctly, giving people fits.

The FCD was set up for Lead bullets that were not always sized correctly. It is designed to make sure when loading lead bullets that they will gauge and chamber check, and fit into factory chambers. Nothing more, nothing less.

It is a specialty die that is used by reloaders that shoot a bunch of lead bullets and want them to function in their guns. As I shoot up to 10 lead bullets in practice to every one jacketed bullet in a match so I know a little bit about the dies, and have them for ever caliber I load lead bullets in.

Because I read on the internet that they affected accuracy I loaded up some of my 50 yd Bianchi ammo, half with my redding crimp die, and the other with the FCD set up for the same crimp. No noticeable difference on groups at 50yds. What I see from friends that get them and have problems is that they turn the knob too much and crimp the crap out of the round instead of just removing the bell.

Here is a suggestion on "suspect" brass. Resize it and then drop it into your gauge. If it drops in almost all the way but hangs up on the rim, your case rim probably has a nick in it from an extractor. If it drops in and out fine, then it is due to the belling and/or bullet seating, or crimp/lack thereof.

Check on thing at a time to rule it out, then check something else. This stuff aint rocket science. You will figure it out, and you came to the right place for some good advice!

Keep at it!

DougC....

<been learning here since 2001.....>

[lugnut]

I did a test. I took a handful of random 9mm brass that had be fired at least once, likely more than once. I ran them all thru my RCBS sizing die. Then took them to the Lee FCD with the crimp adjustment set to not do anything. The FCD definitely "sized" more of the case in the lower 1/3. You can see the shinny marks that the FCD made as well. This is where some older brass will get stuck in the cartridge gauge on me. FWIW...

Like Doug said- I'm sure that the U-die will eliminate most problems anyway.

To the OP... bottom line- make sure your ammo passes the gauge check before using. That will help determine if it is gun related or not.

Before I gauged all my ammo I had occational issues. I could never tell what was the cause- but I'm very sure it was some old brass that wouldn't have passed the gauge check. Now- if I have problems with case ejections- it's likely to be a light load and/or ejector/extractor issues.

[98sr20ve]

If I remember correctly, the Lee factory taper crimp die was made by request of customers that loaded their own lead bullets that they cast. They had problems with the bullets bulging the cases and the rounds would not always case gauge or chamber correctly, giving people fits.

The FCD was set up for Lead bullets that were not always sized correctly. It is designed to make sure when loading lead bullets that they will gauge and chamber check, and fit into factory chambers. Nothing more, nothing less.

It is a specialty die that is used by reloaders that shoot a bunch of lead bullets and want them to function in their guns. As I shoot up to 10 lead bullets in practice to every one jacketed bullet in a match so I know a little bit about the dies, and have them for ever caliber I load lead bullets in.

Because I read on the internet that they affected accuracy I loaded up some of my 50 yd Bianchi ammo, half with my redding crimp die, and the other with the FCD set up for the same crimp. No noticeable difference on groups at 50yds. What I see from friends that get them and have problems is that they turn the knob too much and crimp the crap out of the round instead of just removing the bell.

Here is a suggestion on "suspect" brass. Resize it and then drop it into your gauge. If it drops in almost all the way but hangs up on the rim, your case rim probably has a nick in it from an extractor. If it drops in and out fine, then it is due to the belling and/or bullet seating, or crimp/lack thereof.

Check on thing at a time to rule it out, then check something else. This stuff aint rocket science. You will figure it out, and you came to the right place for some good advice!

Keep at it!

DougC....

<been learning here since 2001.....>

You do realize that Precision specifically recommends NOT using the FCD because it can randomly size bullets causing increased leading.

http://www.precisionbullets.com/

You will find it on their reloading tips page.

Do not use a roll crimp or Lee Factory Taper Crimp Dies.

The roll crimp will cut through the coating. You must use a taper crimp die.

The Lee Factory Taper Crimp Die will undersize the bullets causing accuracy and fouling problems.

Most of the time a heavier crimp will work better.

I did a test. I took a handful of random 9mm brass that had be fired at least once, likely more than once. I ran them all thru my RCBS sizing die. Then took them to the Lee FCD with the crimp adjustment set to not do anything. The FCD definitely "sized" more of the case in the lower 1/3. You can see the shinny marks that the FCD made as well. This is where some older brass will get stuck in the cartridge gauge on me. FWIW...

Like Doug said- I'm sure that the U-die will eliminate most problems anyway.

To the OP... bottom line- make sure your ammo passes the gauge check before using. That will help determine if it is gun related or not.

Before I gauged all my ammo I had occational issues. I could never tell what was the cause- but I'm very sure it was some old brass that wouldn't have passed the gauge check. Now- if I have problems with case ejections- it's likely to be a light load and/or ejector/extractor issues.

Get a better sizing die. If you take a case sized in a Lee Sizer and size a case it will drop in and out of a FCD as if you were using the FCD as a case gauge. Goes in and out smooth as butter. It's your sizer. Also, you don't need a U-Die. People just skip the proper step which is a properly sized sizing die that actually works. It's hard for them to imagine that their expensive RCBS dies don't work as well as the standard Lee Sizing die.

Think about this. Brass spring back is .003. So when you size a case in your sizer and then try and reinsert it into the sizer by hand it won't go in. The U-Die is only .001 smaller then the standard Lee Sizing die. But people are willing to spend nearly $30 to get this .001". I promise you the standard Lee Sizer that comes with the 3 Die Carbide set is better then .001 smaller then your RCBS. It has to be otherwise cases sized in it wouldn't drop into the FCD smoothly. Lee has a system with the FCD and their Sizer. Sizer sizes the case below the size of the FCD after the brass spring back. That way when you run it through the FCD your not actually sizing brass. BUT, if your sizer isn't working right you are sizing brass. Do you really think it's a good idea to mess with brass sizing after you have seated a bullet. 9mm case is a exception because the FCD is sized so that it has very little chance of sizing the case mouth area. It's the exception to my "I don't like FCD's" rule. I still don't see the point when I can load 1K's of rounds with out it and get ZERO that fail the case gauge for sizing issues using a Lee Sizing die and a regular crimp die. I think it's a little funny people who have regular issue with rounds failing the case gauge (unless they use a FCD) want to argue with someone who has zero fail. And yes, I loaded lead as well.

[lugnut]

Makes me wonder why the std Lee sizer dies are smaller to begin with. I've used Hornady and RCBS dies and had similar result different than what you describe 98. If that is the case I can't really see why they also have a U die that is still smaller. Maybe I'll pick up a Lee die to check it out.

[DougCarden]

98, beleive it or not I agree with you completely.

The RCBS sizing die is not getting the job done. I have the "U" dies on my bench, but I use the Lee regular .40/10mm die to resize Glocked .40 brass and it then drops in/out both ways in the case gauge.

I personally use Redding dies as they give me almost perfect cases after they are sized, and the Redding crimp dies are the best I have found.

I just know that when I am loading lead bullets for practice I dont have to case gauge all of them and have them run in my match chambered guns.

Keep at it!

DougC

[98sr20ve]

Makes me wonder why the std Lee sizer dies are smaller to begin with. I've used Hornady and RCBS dies and had similar result different than what you describe 98. If that is the case I can't really see why they also have a U die that is still smaller. Maybe I'll pick up a Lee die to check it out.

U-Die exist because someone saw a market for it and filled it. People buy it because they can't imagine the standard Lee Die is better then the die with RCBS/Dillon/etc on it. I just bought a Hornady die set. It was sized exactly .010" under sammi spec, just like all my Lee sizing dies and with a similiar taper entering the die. I think there are more bad sizing dies out thier then most people realize. There is no reason for your brass to not properly size with a good die. Your RCBS does have a HUGE taper compared to the Lee and even the Hornady. HUGE. Thats probably why the bottom of yours fail and why the FCD works. FCD has the same taper as the Lee Sizing die it's just sized large because once you insert a bullet you can't start resizing the case .010". You have to size it the min amount that still works with a bullet inserted. Thats .003" under SAMMI spec. In a strange sort of way the FCD did Lee a huge favor. It's obvious the Sizer and FCD are matched. Why else would the FCD work as a case gauge for a sized case? I think that may account for why the Lee dies are sized small. If nothing else the Lee FCD gives you a nice case gauge for your sized brass. BUT, once you insert a bullet in the case the bullet expands the case and it will no longer drop in and out of a FCD cleanly by hand. That has been my experiance and is why I don't use them any longer.