Buying a new Witness Match 9mm

[sid]

I am considering buying this pistol but have heard of problems with the magazine. I would like to know the nature of the problem and also any possible fix for this, e.g., better after market magazines.

Second question. Does anyone know the approximate pull weight on the trigger. I am looking for a light trigger because of arthritis in my fingers. TIA

[ck1]

I am considering buying this pistol but have heard of problems with the magazine. I would like to know the nature of the problem and also any possible fix for this, e.g., better after market magazines.

Second question. Does anyone know the approximate pull weight on the trigger. I am looking for a light trigger because of arthritis in my fingers. TIA

With the 9mm's, if you don't use the newer 18rd mags with an integrated spacer towards the front of the mag you will have feeding and nose-dive problems (look for ones marked: EA9M2005, 101935 or stl/pol 05). You'll see when loading the mags that the long magazine body can make short 9mm rounds prone to nosedive (the spacer fills in some of the extra room at the front of the mag body... the 9's are now built on the large frame guns that take the longer .45, 10mm, 38 super, so the mags are larger front-to-back than your average 9mm mag), but as yet I've fired 700rds through mine without a problem (only loading 10rds in a mag).

I HAVE noticed that loading over 10rds into the mags significantly increases the chances of nose-diving and FTF's, I have had a few mags go through all 18 no problem, but only a few, 10rds per mag has been 100%... and if you're plannining on carrying this gun or loading it with jhp for home defense I wouldn't load more than 10 (I can't get more than 10 rounds of Gold Dots to hand cycle through it, again, works smooth as butter if only 10 in the mag).

There is supposed to be a newer/better redesigned mag for the 9mm with the spacer located on the back of the mag body that was announced at the last shot show to be imported... but haven't seen them yet, bet Henning will have the scoop on them, and most likely have them for sale when they finally arrive.

I just picked up my Elite Match 9mm recently and my out-of-the-box trigger breaks at approx. 4.5lbs or less and is VERY nice, and is getting lighter the more I shoot/dry-fire it... I'll be putting in a lighter 14lb hammer spring this week to lighten it up a bit, but I'm fine with it "as is" and will re-install the factory 16lb spring if I experience any light strikes.

You can go down to a 13lb hammer spring if you remove the firing pin block and pick up one of Henning's x-long firing pins for the lightest pull possible.

If you reload or don't mind the added cost of shooting .45/10mm/.38super, those guns may be less problematic... that said, I'm still totally happy I got the 9mm, 9 shoots like a pussycat in the heavier gun, and is death-ray accurate!

Edited October 27, 2009 by ck1

[satx40]

I have a Match 9mm that I have had for several years. It came with the spacer in the front of the mag. When I started to reload for it I made the OAL extremely long and used the barrel as a gauge. I kept shortening the OAL until the round would chamber properly and the nose of the bullet did not contact the throat of the barrel. I then checked it in the mag to make sure that it would fit and work properly. I have been able to load all of my mags to the max and they all work without problem. I have also shot factory ammo without problems but not enough to determine if there would be a feed problem.

HTH

Art

[Gary1911A1]

I'm waiting on the newer mags too for a Stock in 9MM I would like to shoot in Production. It's a shame EAA and Tanfoglio treat their product as if it's a cheap pistol to be sold as is like it's a cheap Hi Point or something.

[ck1]

I'm waiting on the newer mags too for a Stock in 9MM I would like to shoot in Production. It's a shame EAA and Tanfoglio treat their product as if it's a cheap pistol to be sold as is like it's a cheap Hi Point or something.

It's a shame they didn't make it a priority to have a 100% functioning magazine for the 9/40 when they decided to move them to the large frame... selling an 18rd mag that will only feed 10 is BS!

They should just have just stuck with the small frame for the 9/40's rather than selling a product with known issues to us.

[liontribe]

how are the .40 magazines if i am just running factory ammo? i am looking for a Match in .40 but i don't need magazines problems with the shorter factory loaded .40 ammo. thanks.

liontribe

[RIIID]

I've not had any problems running factory length ammo in the Tan. mags/guns.

Rich

[liontribe]

good to know. i haven't owned a .40 pistol in some years. i have heard that the big steel Tan is a pussycat in .40 cal.

liontribe

[ck1]

I called EAA to see if any of the "improved" 9mm magazines were available yet and to explain the problems I was having with the one that came with my gun, I explained that since I just got the pistol I'd be needing a few more mags but wanted to have to only purchase them once, so considering my experience with the one I have, I'd prefer the "improved" ones if possible... the lady I spoke to was nice but wasn't sure of anything and didn't know anything about any new magazine design... she took my number to have one of their gunsmiths call me back.

Later that day I received a call from EAA and the gentleman who called was polite, but not much help, he said while he had indeed "heard" they were working on a new mag design, he hadn't seen any yet. He said that I did have the current (but not the "improved") 9mm mag design (w/ the spacer in the mag body) and that I shouldn't be having the problems I've been having (only being able to load 10rds in them to avoid mis-feeds/nose-dives), he then said I could ship them my magazine and they could take a look at it...

What pisses me off, and annoys me is: First, way to go on the definitive "heard they were working on a new magazine...", it's not like I was asking the importer of the gun or anything! No "we'll check with Tanfoglio and get back to you", no "let me look into it...", just left me with no more info than before I had called.

As for my problematic mag, I said "Well, if I'm going to ship you my only mag, I'll have to buy another one and then wait to get it so I can still shoot the gun if I want in the interim while you guys suss out what's up with the magazine that originally came with the pistol..." to which he replied "Yeah, guess so...".

THAT SUCKS! Guess this is my first initiation to dealing with EAA's legendary customer service!

I had a mag problem with one of my Glock mags once and they sent me 3 brand new mags RIGHT AWAY and then apologized for any inconvenience!

This is a brand new gun, and although it's not my fault it was shipped with a faulty magazine, it appears EAA feels it's perfectly reasonable to expect me to purchase another magazine (or not, and just not be able to use the gun), then ship them the faulty one so they can take a look at it (didn't ask, but I'd bet it's safe to assume they expect ME to pay the shipping...).

The gun is good enough where I was willing to look past the prospect of enduring less than stellar customer service from EAA. However, now, after experiencing it first hand I'm not sure I made a very good decision.

I know $25-30 for a mag is no big deal, and hopefully after I send them the bad mag they'll get me one that works 100%... but the low cost is kind of the point... after I buy and receive another potentially unreliable magazine so I can shoot the gun in the interim, it'll probably cost me $10 or so back and forth in shipping to get a mag that works from them (on top of the original $500+ cost of the pistol) when the gun should have been supplied with a 100% working mag in the first place... Just about any other firearms company in the country would have just put forth a small amount of effort towards customer service and sent out a new mag gratis on principal to make up for the inconvenience and make a new customer happy.

Just something to consider...

Edited October 29, 2009 by ck1

[kylethunder380]

I have a 9mm Large Frame Match that has been my main gun for a while. My mags also have the spacer in the front and still using the factory red followers. I DID get nosedive's initially but only with non-roundnose bullets or really soft lead bullets. The feedramp comes polished from Tanfo, but you could go a little further to make it mirror finished if you want. Regardless, I think you should stick to round nose bullets and load them as long as possible for your chamber. With my current load, I can load up my mags to 17 (can't fit 18 yet) and haven't had a single nose-dive, ever. Also watch Henning's video on how to load mags... I know it sounds stupid but he shows you how to get the rounds to line up better as you are loading, and this minimizes the 'gap' you see between the 1st and 2nd rounds of a full mag. I think the problem mainly gets bad with people who are trying to increase the capacity of their (large) 9mm mags with extended base plates and Grams aftermarket internals. As you noticed the gap gets worse as you add more rounds to the mag, so you can imagine how the gap would look with 23 rounds instead of 18. If you are willing to try different bullets and OAL's I think you can get the factory mags to run reliably with 18 rounds. But, if you want to increase the capacity beyond 18 and still be reliable, I don't think it's possible in the large frame (unless you send your mags to Jim Anglin.)

-Kyle

Edited: I forgot to mention that I use the Lee Factory Crimp Die. Not sure if that is part of the reason for my luck or not since I have used it from the start.

Edited October 29, 2009 by kylethunder380

[ck1]

I have a 9mm Large Frame Match that has been my main gun for a while. My mags also have the spacer in the front and still using the factory red followers. I DID get nosedive's initially but only with non-roundnose bullets or really soft lead bullets. The feedramp comes polished from Tanfo, but you could go a little further to make it mirror finished if you want. Regardless, I think you should stick to round nose bullets and load them as long as possible for your chamber. With my current load, I can load up my mags to 17 (can't fit 18 yet) and haven't had a single nose-dive, ever. Also watch Henning's video on how to load mags... I know it sounds stupid but he shows you how to get the rounds to line up better as you are loading, and this minimizes the 'gap' you see between the 1st and 2nd rounds of a full mag. I think the problem mainly gets bad with people who are trying to increase the capacity of their (large) 9mm mags with extended base plates and Grams aftermarket internals. As you noticed the gap gets worse as you add more rounds to the mag, so you can imagine how the gap would look with 23 rounds instead of 18. If you are willing to try different bullets and OAL's I think you can get the factory mags to run reliably with 18 rounds. But, if you want to increase the capacity beyond 18 and still be reliable, I don't think it's possible in the large frame (unless you send your mags to Jim Anglin.)

-Kyle

Edited: I forgot to mention that I use the Lee Factory Crimp Die. Not sure if that is part of the reason for my luck or not since I have used it from the start.

Thanks for the info. I don't have a reloading set-up yet, but x-mas is almost here... so at some point sooner rather than later hopefully I may have the luxury of loading to a longer OAL and I'll definitely try that.

Hope my post above doesn't come off as unreasonably angry... it just irks me greatly that EAA continues to ship a product with known issues and isn't exactly trying very hard (or at all) to make customer's inconveniences a thing of the past.

The thing about these guns is that they are so freakin' good that the sketchy mags seem just that much more annoying! I could really care less about capacity as much as reliability, and that said, loading beyond 10rds in the mag makes mine very unreliable, and even with only loading 10 I don't exactly have a great deal of confidence in it not having feeding problems...

Since the thing probably has the best trigger out there short of an expensive/custom 1911, I'll live with the less than perfect mags... and since 10 in the mag is all I really need for IDPA anyway, it's workable; I'll just be ready for the tap-rack-bang when it happens, and hope I don't get any bad nose-dive jams that require pulling out the mag to clear.

Such a good gun... really deserves a better mag...