Even Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Swede 04 Don't get to carried away with your splits. If you can do .19-.20 all the time, you will find a whole lot of other details that will improve your shooting more than shaving a few tenths off your splits. Movement comes to mind... When you start beating up on Ralf Jensen, you can start working on your splits again even Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Boit Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Fast splits are useless if you got poor hits and slow transitions. I can shoot something around .15s or .16s with my standard, but i'd rather go for a.20s or .25s and be sure to have good hits . Of course, I'll make .15s on a close open target. As Even said, movement is also a very important thing, learn to shoot on the move, to enter in a shooting box (or position) ready to shoot and start to leave it after you called the shot. Eric Grauffel doesn't shot impressive splits( despite he can do) i think around .18 to .20 but he shot lots and lots of A's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex9x19 Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 Flexmoney I was watching the front sight today and found it very useful for 20 yards or so. Thanks for the advice. I will pay attention to the front sight movement every time I shoot. But I don't really see how it can improve my splits on the Bill Drill. I don't use sights for 7 yards shooting and still hit "A" zone every time. It seems like trying to press trigger as fast as possible adds tension to my index finger and slows it down. For some reason it doesn't happen on 3 different targets and in fact my time is the same on three targets. Julien Boit I have seen Eric Grauffel El-Presidente video and his splits there around 0.10 sec and transitions around 0.20 sec. http://grauffel.free.fr/index_video.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 It seems like trying to press trigger as fast as possible adds tension to my index finger and slows it down. When you TRY and do anything, it increases tension. A large part of letting the sights guide your shooting in a bill drill is that is a sign you are not rushing and only pulling the trigger when you know the shot is an A. Know what I mean...I don't think I worded that too well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 But I don't really see how it can improve my splits on the Bill Drill. Keep shooting with SEEING as your goal and you will hit a moment when it all makes sense. If you keep thinking about the clock then you will plateau. Seeing is the goal (along with input from the other senses). The more aware you are, the easier it will be to shoot to your limit...and beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 It's true, fast [target to target] transitions are more valuable than fast splits. But that doesnn't mean that the value of fast splits should necessarily be discarded. A stage can be won by .01 seconds. If you want to save time then it's best to shave time....but at what cost? If you have the ability to rip some fast splits on the close targets and the patience to slow down a bit on the tight shots, then you have a winning combination. You all had some great comments by the way. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 I find that when trying to shoot fast splits it often requires me to really over-drive the gun. That brings on tension and really hurts me in transitioning to longer or tighter shots. I'm better off staying fluid and loose so that I'm reading the gun and breaking shots with no excess tension in my wrists or forearms. That way I can react to the sights and transition from shorter to longer shots with no loss of rythm or feel. If the sights are there then break the shot and don't sweat the time. If you are doing it right, it will happen very quickly anyway, only it won't necessarily seem fast as it is happening. Make sense ?? Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 Right on when you TRY, it doesn't work, reacting what you see is where it is at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 Bill, You are absolutely right from my experience. My best split that I know of was a .11 on a stage in VA summer blast. I only know that because BJ Norris was the RO and pointed it out to me. I was just finishing the stage on a close target and it happened. I have never worked on splits, but i spend a ton of time on transitions. My new motto is: Let the dot make the shot It's my mental reminder to call every shot and make every shot count. When that is done, you can slow the timer down, or so it seems. I don't want to discourage anyone from working on splits, just be wary of trying for fast splits to the exclusion of letting your vision control the gun. And...while you're splitting, make sure you see the sight/dot lift and return, at least peripherally. That is the key to fast accurate shooting:continual sight picture. I remember (picture gets wavy and Wayne and Garth say doodly-doo, doodly doo) Flex and I the first time we practiced together. he was much further along than me and was coaching me thru some Bill drills on a stuck popper. I swear I couldn't get three shots off without trigger freeze...that was the day I swore off trying. SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonub Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 i posted somewhere on how should i improve on my splits. The answer is save time somewhere else. So i started running and transitioning faster. My best split is on targets up close where you just point to the target and fire 2 alpha shots. time is on the .15. slow but alpha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 Jasonub, .15. slow but alpha That's not slow. As was stated earlier, (I think it was anyway) most of the winners don't usually shoot any faster than that. I'm a close personal friend of one of the top shooters in the sport who is always commenting on my splits, "...man, you've got some fast splits...". But, it doesn't do much good if you're still not winning, I guess. I totally agree with Steve, you can only shoot as fast as you can see. Muscling the gun is not good, but as BE states, you do need some tension in your hands/ wrists/ forearms in order to grip the gun. The tension should not travel up your arms, into your body though, you need to stay relaxed and let what you see dictate what you shoot. For me that little bit of tension helps me control the gun, actually allowing me to see what I need to see a little better. The bit in a horses mouth is pretty small, as is a ship's rudder, but both fairly large bodies are controlled by those small things. Anyway..... It's really cool when it comes all together. It will be even cooler when it STAYS all together. Regards, Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 What Steve said - perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Moore Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 i got my first 0.10 split today in a local match. it was a turkey stage that required you to draw and place four shots on one target reload and four on another and i won the turkey with the hhf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 Tom, I knew you were gonna post that. Pretty wild watching two 3 foot flames shoot out of an open gun in a tenth of a second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD45 Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 I have never had anyone check my spilts before until yesterday. I shoot a Kimber .45, but we had shot all of my ammo, so I tried a friend's Glock M-17(stock 5.5lb. trigger). For the 7 or 8 shots I fired, the splits were mostly .19, one .18, and a .20. I have never fired more than 50rds. through all Glocks combined, but I really like the M-17 (for IDPA). I think that with practice, splits would easily beat my Kimber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Moore Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 so jake do you know anything about cooking a turkey? i take no liability for stage props catching on fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 time is on the .15. slow but alpha Cripes dude! 0.15?! In a given match my splits run close to .28-.30 and my standing's up there with the big guys. Last time I conciously sped up it was a disaster. Steve's right. I don't want to discourage anyone from working on splits, just be wary of trying for fast splits to the exclusion of letting your vision control the gun. Rocket's also right about getting the extra tension working on the gun driving it that hard. However, I've learned that comfort zones can be pushed up to higher levels. And the only way I know I can do that is to get comfy shooting faster and faster pushing everything in practice. Unfortuately, I'm using the matches for practice... Yeah right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonub Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 I was not going for the split. It was the match at PNPA where there was a half target in the ground which you can shoot as on the move. It was so very close and i just snapped my muzzle to it, did not see the sights just the target and fired 2 A's I asked the ro what my split for that target since i remember it was fast and viola it was fast I posted somewhere here on how to bring down my slow .20-.30 splits and everyone said to forget about it and concentrate on transitions. So I did and forgot about it until the time i shot that match and wow Everyone who said dont try is right, it just happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalmas Posted December 24, 2003 Author Share Posted December 24, 2003 Swede 04When you start beating up on Ralf Jensen, you can start working on your splits again even Even, He is still out of reach, only been shooting since April but I concider myself lucky to have a world top shooter around to train and meet in just about every match. Splits is no problem anymore, my timer is in timer heaven and I'll wait to buy a new one until the CED 8000 is released on the market. Working on getting in and out of position instead... and there I can save seconds not hundreds of a second as in splits. Have a very merry christmas and a happy new year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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