Barrel cleaning

[olp73]

I wonder if it is dangerous to shoot the lead out of a barrel? For example, if you do a training section with lead bullets and before you go home you putt 5-10 jacket bullets down range just to clean out most of the leading.

Most quality barrels don’t lead up that bad in 250 rounds or so. The question is: can this ruin a good barrel? After reading Schuemanns web page where he actually advices people to never clean there barrels. (I guess this is if you shoot strictly jacked bullets) I got the idea.

Regardless of what Schuemann says a traditional 1911 barrel, Schuemann or not, that only sees lead bullets will eventually need to be cleaned. Or at least that is my experience.

[chirpy]

I've heard both answeres..."Yes, go ahead and shoot the lead out" and "NO WAY! The lead causes dangerous pressures." and even "There is no way to shoot the lead out because the jacketed bullet just passes thru the lead and does nothing to clean the lead out". I don't know which is correct because I don't have equipment to test pressures and/or the barrel as jacketed is fired after lead. Careful cleaning can't hurt IMHO. Anyone else.....?

FWIW

Richard

[olp73]

I've heard both answeres..."Yes, go ahead and shoot the lead out" and "NO WAY! The lead causes dangerous pressures." and even "There is no way to shoot the lead out because the jacketed bullet just passes thru the lead and does nothing to clean the lead out". I don't know which is correct because I don't have equipment to test pressures and/or the barrel as jacketed is fired after lead. Careful cleaning can't hurt IMHO. Anyone else.....?

FWIW

Richard

Some quotes from schuemanns web page:

"Even the brass/bronze brushes, which have bristles which are as hard as mild steel, or the lead removers,

which use a hard brass mesh to scape the lead from the bore, may well be able to scatch the bore

surface of a stainless steel barrel. Any scratching of the bore surface will naturally lead to

increased bore surface wear, leading, and coppering. My recommendation would be to never use

any kind of a bore brush to clean a 416 stainless steel pistol barrel, especially if it has been

exposed to strings of rapid fire

My Personal Practice has become to never clean the bore of my barrels. I do use a brass rod

to scrape the deposits out of the chamber. But, I've learned to leave the bore alone and it very

slowly becomes shinier and cleaner all by itself. Years ago I occasionally scrubbed the bore with

a brass bore brush. But, doing so always seemed to cause the bore to revert to a dirtier look with

more shooting, so I eventually stopped ever putting anything down the bore except bullets..."

look here for the full story:

http://www.schuemann.com/LinkClick.aspx?fi...=67&mid=445

[Boats]

Easiest thing is shoot one or the other and don't switch back and forth. If the lead is performing properly there should be no lead residue to worry about. With lead you can see if there is any left Copper is real hard to get out 100% and will affect lead performance when going back. Might look like all copper is cleaned out but almost always some remains.

Boats

[Service Desk]

This whole Lead thing is blown WAY out of proportion...... if there is lead in your barrel, put a bronze brush through the bore after a swab with a little solvent. The bronze brush will soon take the lead out, the solvent will act as a cleaning aid and lubricant. Pass a patch through and your done.

There is no way that a bronze brush is going to wear a barrel out when used in this manner.

I have an S&W revolver that has over 120,000 rounds through it - all lead, I have cleaned it in the manner described on thousands of occasions and countless many other occasions with Hoppes Bore snakes, Brownells Double-Tuff brushes and similar bronze brushes dry, the damn thing still shoots 1.5" at 50 yards with lead wadcutters !

Oh BTW that's with a Douglas barrel - with a hardness of 28 on a Rockwell C scale, most 1911 barrels are around 36 to 40....

[Pezco]

As a chemical guy and an IPSC and Bench Rest shooter I am conflicted with the information presented. I would need to see more or the actual data before I would change my ways.

olp73 - While not an expert by any stretch, the practice of "shooting the lead out" sounds risky!

My cleaning ways:

- A brush never touches any of my barrels

- IPSC gun (SV & Wilson) cleaned ~every 3,000 rounds or before major matches (Glocks cleaned 1/year or 10,000 rounds)

- Bench Rest barrel cleaned ~ 100 rounds (excluding break-in)

[BigTinVA]

Pezco,

What method do you use to clean your barrels without ever using brushes? Is it only chemical and patches?

Thanks.

[MoNsTeR]

I'm basically a devotee of the Schuemann bore cleaning philosophy, which is to say I don't do it at all. Chambers get cleaned with a patch wrapped around an oversized brush, but bores just stay dirty.

[ParaGunner]

What's harder,a copper bullet or a bronze brush? What's worse between a copper bullet forcing it's way through the barrel at 700+ fps or a bronze brush getting pulled through the bore? Currently I always clean my chambers and bores of my barrels,and until I see some real proof that cleaning the bore actually hurts it I will continue to clean it.

[iainmcphersn]

What's harder,a copper bullet or a bronze brush? What's worse between a copper bullet forcing it's way through the barrel at 700+ fps or a bronze brush getting pulled through the bore? Currently I always clean my chambers and bores of my barrels,and until I see some real proof that cleaning the bore actually hurts it I will continue to clean it.

Bronze is harder than copper due to the tin content. Not sure it's worse than a copper jacket at 700+ though.

[Boats]

What you can do is screw up a crown or throat with rods running in and out. Lots of Rifles & Revolvers messed up that way. I still remember my M1 from boot camp muzzle worn out completely from all that scrubbing. I always use a muzzle protector or if a simple single wipe at the range before putting the gun in it's case, rods made from Derron. I never worry about bronze brushes if it needs it will use them.

Target loads at modest velocity My Douglas barrel Schuetzen rifle is 15 years old and goes through at least two thousand 38/55 300 gr lead bullets a year, at about 1250 fps. All it takes and all it has ever had is a wipe with a tight fitting patch. The bore is as good as the day Douglas made the barrel. It may have 30,000 rounds Nobody shooting those guns worries about leading. Also Shoot Military single shot rifle matches with a 1884 trapdoor. 405 grs 45/70 a little over 1100 fps well over a hundred years of lead through it's barell no problems or build up.

On the other hand I have shot out several modern 30 cal barrels in Silouette and Match rifles. It's the hotter temps velocity and preassure as well as the jacketed bullet not the cleaning. 308's or 7mm 08's can loose there sharp edge accuracy in 3-4000 rounds or so. 243's much faster thats why guys don't use them for match rifles barrels won't last a season.

45 or 38 pistols shooting sub sonic lead bullets should have no issues at all as long as the loads are reasonable and the bullet fit is correct. Oldest 45 I owned was a GI Remington Rand, Shot nothing but lead 200 gr SWC's over Unique for 30 years only wiping clean using patches. Have a S&W M&P M of 1905 Target bore is perfect Doubt if it ever shot anything but lead wadcutters about 750 fps. 9MM I am not so sure. I mostly shoot Jacketed in mine.

Boats

[mscott]

I've almost given up cleaning bores of rifles and pistols. It's a good idea to run a dry patch to remove any powder residue so it won't draw moisture, but that's as far as I go. I shoot lead bullets exclusively (except the open gun) in my pistols and it never gets bad enough to worry about. I also quit cleaning rifle barrels. I have about 350 rounds through my tactical match rifle since the last cleaning and it still shoots perfectly. That is a 7mm rem mag pushing 175 SMKs at 2,950fps. Opinions vary, but I'd rather not wear a gun barrel out by cleaning it when there is no reason to.

[G-ManBart]

I don't have the exact number because I'm not at home, but my newest Open gun has between 11,500 and 12,000 rounds through it so far. It has never seen a brush aside from the chamber and even in the chamber I use a worn brush with a patch on it. I'll run a couple of wet patches down the bore every thousand rounds or so, but that's it. Accuracy has yet to deteriorate....last week I shot a couple of 25yd groups that were .75"....hard to complain with that.

With lead it's going to depend on how smooth your barrel is, how hard the bullets are, what powder you're running and how fast you're pushing them. Even with a really smooth bore you'll start to get leading even with very hard cast bullets once you get into the 12-1300fps range. I shot tens of thousands of hard cast bullets through my first Open gun because I was a broke college student and I did have to scrub the bore (Bar-Sto barrel in .38 Super) pretty regularly, but a couple of jacketed bullets after every couple hundred lead seemed to clean it out reasonably well. That was with old 180+PF loads and it never caused a problem and the accuracy stayed excellent over time. R,