Reload time on El Presidente

[Chris iliff]

I haven't worked on or shot an El Presidente in over a year and I wanted to see how much I improved, so I ran one the other night. Anyways, I did improve, but what got me was my time between shots 6 and 7. This is where the "reload" happens for those not familiar with this classifier. My time was 1.52 seconds. This is all "A's", not just spraying and praying for a fast time. How does this compare with anybody else? I hear talk about the 1 second reload being the goal, is this any reload, last shot to first shot off new magazine? I guess this is what I'm wanting to know? Since the CM 99-11 reload is "isolated", so to speak, I thought that getting times of that split between shot 6 and 7 would be a good idea.

Open

"B" class

1.52s

If I got that down to a 1 second split, I'd be in the lower 5's on total time.

[G-ManBart]

I don't know about on El Pres specifically, but yes, when folks talk about their reload time they're talking about the time from the last shot on the old mag to the first shot on the new mag.

1.52s isn't a bad reload and low 5s on El Pres with all A's is likely a GM hit factor in all divisions. Last time I ran it in Limited I shot all A's in something like 5.95s and it came out at a fraction below 95%. I didn't check the reload time, so I can't help there. It actually felt slow, but that's usually when you're going pretty fast. R,

[XRe]

I don't know about on El Pres specifically, but yes, when folks talk about their reload time they're talking about the time from the last shot on the old mag to the first shot on the new mag.

Bingo. Its the shot to shot time bracketing the reload itself - this is the standard way to measure any skill in between shots, FWIW....

1.52s isn't a bad reload and low 5s on El Pres with all A's is likely a GM hit factor in all divisions.

Open 100% factor is 12.000 - 5.00 seconds clean. The others can be reverse engineered from the classifier calculator. For some reason, I'm remembering iron sight gun hit factors being something like 11.000??? (5.45 clean)

Last time I ran it in Limited I shot all A's in something like 5.95s and it came out at a fraction below 95%. I didn't check the reload time, so I can't help there. It actually felt slow, but that's usually when you're going pretty fast. R,

I recently ran a 3.88 with crappy points (3Ds, and a bunch of Cs...). That was with a 1.20 turning draw, and a .98 reload. A 1.52 reload isn't hideous - it probably reflects your overall skill level. At my level, I need to shave two tenths off of that 1st shot, keep the reload time, and clean up the points. Working reloads will make that time drop - its a complex skill that needs a lot of practice, so...

A one second reload with an A-zone hit afterward is a solid goal to make and meet. A consistent one second reload is sharp, and will serve you well at all levels. If you can go faster, that's Kool and the Gang... but if you've got a consistent one second load, you can probably find weaker areas of your game to be spending your time on (minus the work it takes to keep your load in that range....)

[Flexmoney]

Here is an El Prez Production reload on video that somebody caught of me at our state match.

I was in "execute the fundamentals" mode...as opposed to "lett'r rip" mode (turned out to be a 100% classifier and a stage win). I think it's about a 1.25s reload from Alpha to Alpha.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6...load&hl=en#

Here is a nice video with Travis teaching the reload: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StXMHw32kjA..._embedded#t=132

[L-10_shooter]

Wow good stuff Flex.

Looks like your brass might fall back into the chamber, lol.

I have not done an el prez on a timer but a shot to shot reload at my last practice was just under 2 seconds. Slow, need to do more dry fire.

Edited September 11, 2009 by L-10_shooter

[G-ManBart]

Last time I ran it in Limited I shot all A's in something like 5.95s and it came out at a fraction below 95%. I didn't check the reload time, so I can't help there. It actually felt slow, but that's usually when you're going pretty fast. R,

I recently ran a 3.88 with crappy points (3Ds, and a bunch of Cs...). That was with a 1.20 turning draw, and a .98 reload. A 1.52 reload isn't hideous - it probably reflects your overall skill level. At my level, I need to shave two tenths off of that 1st shot, keep the reload time, and clean up the points. Working reloads will make that time drop - its a complex skill that needs a lot of practice, so...

Wow, I just checked and it was back in June of 07 that I shot the above...it was 94.31%.

[Pezco]

Nice run and video Flex!

[bkeeler]

FWIW.

T.T. just shot this at IL. Sectional in Limited 4.53sec 59 points 13.0243 100%+

My time at IL. Sectional in Limited 6.12 sec 50 points 8.1699 75.6388% pretty sloppy, rushing.

Max at IL. Sectional in open 4.26 secs 58 points 13.6150 100%+

BK

[XRe]

What would be interesting would be to have some numbers on what M2 and TT's turning draw and reload times were. Those times - mid to low 4s - are pretty much the standard GM times on El Pres, now, regardless of the 100% mark on it...

[Flexmoney]

I pulled up the 2005 Ohio match results.

If anybody recalls, at the time, there was some discussion on the forum on just how fast (w/ any hits) an El Prez could be shot...and, also on how well it could score at a major (when you factored in points).

A 12hf in a major? There were some serious Doubting Thomas'. So, having the ability to do so...I put it in our Ohio Section (Level III) match.

Brad and Jake both busted the 12hf mark:

Brad Balsley 70 M Open 56 0 4.56 12.2807 60.0000 100.00%

Jake DiVita 50 GM Open 54 0 4.46 12.1076 59.1543 98.59%

And, on the Production side, fwiw:

Kyle Farris M Production 56 0 5.39 10.3896 60.0000 100.00%

Todd Sindelar GM Production 44 0 4.59 9.5861 55.3598 92.27%

Todd's 4.59s run with a Production gun...pretty cool. I think he was in "let'r rip" mode. When I looked on that and asked myself where I could have gained the time difference (0.80s) between his run and mine, the easy answer is in the turn and draw and the reload. As I recall, both of mine were at 1.25s (maybe a tick slower). I know I have run the turn and the reload a quarter of a second faster, each. So, that is a half-second or more of gain to be had there. That take some of that practice though.

I couldn't go across the targets too much faster and expect to shoot Alphas. Though, if you watch closely, my second pass is a bit faster than the first pass.

For most shooters, the place to gain time is going to be on the turn and draw (snap that head around) and on the reload. Then shoot Alphas. And, that is pretty much the formula to shoot all classifiers well. Get a good turn and draw and barricade draw down and a reload down...to Alpha hits...at 10y.

Anyway...we are starting to drift (sorry if I furthered that). Hopefully we can keep this on the reload at 10y to an Alpha.

[Chris iliff]

Thanks Xre, Flex, and Gman. I knew that a specific like this would probably be hard to get info on, as most guys don't keep the particulars, just the final time. I also was pretty confident that a few would have that specific split from the El Presidente, the guys that had the info didn't suprise me and I really appreciate the input. I would like to get others splits and class as well from anyone else.

Until I read Gmans post, I really thought the 1.52 was hideous, now I know where I need to go and with some practice feel confident I will get there.

The little things are the hardest..... that seems to be what I learn the more I shoot. The difference between the "D" and "GM" is in seconds, a "B" and "Gm" is smaller, but to close that gap is harder. Make any sense?

Thanks for the replies!

[XRe]

A 12hf in a major? There were some serious Doubting Thomas'. So, having the ability to do so...I put it in our Ohio Section (Level III) match.

I guess they didn't think to realize that the 12HF 100% mark is derived from major match scores? I can generally shoot 12 factor on that stage all day long without pushing, which means I can do it in on demand, in a major, as needed...

Brad and Jake both busted the 12hf mark:

Brad Balsley 70 M Open 56 0 4.56 12.2807 60.0000 100.00%

Jake DiVita 50 GM Open 54 0 4.46 12.1076 59.1543 98.59%

I suspect if you put it in an Area match or Nationals, you'll see a lot more than that

The little things are the hardest..... that seems to be what I learn the more I shoot. The difference between the "D" and "GM" is in seconds, a "B" and "Gm" is smaller, but to close that gap is harder. Make any sense?

Actually, the difference in M to GM is measured in seconds, still.... but its fixed by taking little small fractions off of most things (that add up into seconds). But, you're totally right - each step up the ladder costs more than the last (ie, its harder to move up each step... a logarithmic curve, instead of a straight line up). That last 10% takes a lot of work, and a lot of attention to fine detail. Even once you hit GM, there's a lot of work from there to winning major matches....

[G-ManBart]

That last 10% takes a lot of work, and a lot of attention to fine detail. Even once you hit GM, there's a lot of work from there to winning major matches....

During Max's speech after winning the Open Nationals this year he said he practiced every day since moving to his new house roughly five months ago....that's a LOT of practice. R,

[Flexmoney]

Brad and Jake both busted the 12hf mark:

Brad Balsley 70 M Open 56 0 4.56 12.2807 60.0000 100.00%

Jake DiVita 50 GM Open 54 0 4.46 12.1076 59.1543 98.59%

I suspect if you put it in an Area match or Nationals, you'll see a lot more than that

I imagine so.

It was 4yrs ago. It was when Jake was pushing for a 3 second El Prez and everybody got all religious about whether it was possible or not.

[XRe]

I imagine so.

It was 4yrs ago. It was when Jake was pushing for a 3 second El Prez and everybody got all religious about whether it was possible or not.

Yeah... and Jake pretty much proved that's possible, too.

Thing is, the 100% HF for El Pres (in Open) has been 12 for quite some time. It wouldn't surprise me if a 14 would be shot in a big major, though I'd expect the stage win to be more like 13-13.5. (13 is 4.61 clean).

[DUKE]

Thanks for the vid Flex !

[TMC]

Last time I shot it in Limited it was 5.10 with 59 or 60 points which was a 98%. On a good day my reloads are 1.2 +/-

Edited September 18, 2009 by TMC

[tightloop]

Can remember when it was Par time and 10 sec....

[TRNinTX]

Here is some video (23 sec in) of Adam Popplewell, Dave Re, & BJ at the 2008 Texas Open shooting the El Prez. For some reason I can't see get to the results to see what the times were. Melody Line is also in the video.

2008 Texas Open

Edited January 2, 2010 by TRNinTX

[Paul Burtchell]

Boy, that match (2008 Tx. Open) brings back memories. It was my first major match.

Edited January 1, 2010 by baerburtchell

[XRe]

Gotta love a 13 shot El Pres...

[nm3gnr]

Great Video !!!!

My best in a major was Space City 2009 open A class 5.07 down 2 ( I could be a hair off, but memory says) I think 1st place was a GM in open at 4.87 (Scott Stockton)

As was stated above, it really is in the turn & draw and the reload.

D

Edited January 2, 2010 by nm3gnr

[GENE S]

El_presidente.WMV

My best is 6.05 (see above)

Edited January 5, 2010 by GENE S

[TMC]

Here is some video (23 sec in) of Adam Popplewell, Dave Re, & BJ at the 2008 Texas Open shooting the El Prez. For some reason I can't see get to the results to see what the times were. Melody Line is also in the video.

2008 Texas Open

off topic....

Great video. BJ is really impressive especially on table(barrel) start gun unloaded. That seemed unbelievely fast, it would be interesting to know his time to first shot.

[TRNinTX]

The Major Match Results page got fixed.

BJ - 56 pts; 4.11 sec; HF 13.6253

Adam - 56 pts; 4.36 sec; HF 12.8440

Dave - 57 pts; 4.92 sec but had an extra shot & extra hit that hurt his HF