looking to get into USPSA

[Shawn McKenna]

Hello All,

I am new to this sport and looking at getting a Les Baer Pistol build up for this, my understanding is that I would like to start in the limited class, I am looking at having Les put a 5" .40 cal together for me.

I would really appreciate any help on things to ask for when ordering it and things that I really don't need stuff like that. I would really like to avoid getting people who are going to tell me to get a different pistol from another maker, I already have a credit with Les and I really like his stuff.

Anything else you can say to help me out would be very helpful.

Thanks,

Shawn

[ChuckS]

Hi Shawn,

Welcome to the forum! While you could shoot a Baer in Limited Division (classes are for people, divisions are for equipment ), limited is dominated by double-stack guns. Probably the best choices would be either Single Stack or Limited-10. Limited-10 is much more liberal in modifications that can be done to a gun. Also, pretty much anything goes with holsters and such. You may want to checkout Appendix D of the rulebook for restrictions:

http://www.uspsa.org/rules/2008HandgunRulesindexed.pdf

Probably the biggest difference in the two divisions is that SS only allows bushing-style barrels in a 5" gun. Get a bushing gun and you can shoot both divisions.

What you may want to do is list the features you are considering here in a post and I am sure you will get a lot of opinions on what is good or bad.

Later,

Chuck

PS: Fountain Valley?? Have you been out to Norco yet?

[Jeff686]

Not to throw a wet rag on your fire, but why Les Baer? I know they make a great product, but you just don't see many in USPSA. I spent a few minutes on their we page and didn't see any double stack wide-body frames. Although they make a lot of super accurate competition guns, I don't think they make many USPSA Limited class guns.

If they do make wide-bodies, I'd love to know if they use a Para or STI frame, or maybe they make thier own. If so, what mags?

If you said you were interested in the Single Stack division, Les Baer would be awesome!

As someone who owns and competes with a less common type of pistol (tanfoglio) , I must emphasize that there is a great advantage to shooting a common and popular brand/style of pistol. When it comes to getting replacement parts, variety of accessories (magazine, base pads, grips), and general gunsmith assistance, it is a great help to own a popular brand/style of gun.

Edited September 5, 2009 by Jeff686

[G-ManBart]

Hi Shawn,

I'd suggest reading this thread:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=913533

The short, short, short version on equipment is to find your local club, meet the folks there and try as much as you can get your hands on. That will point you in the right direction. Deciding what you want, equipment wise, buying it and then figuring out what division it fits in will only cost you more money in the long run. R,

[Alan Meek]

Les Baer makes a Hi-Cap 40

Same chassis as the current USPSA Limited National Champion and IPSC Standard Division World Champ.

Alan

[ChuckS]

Les Baer makes a Hi-Cap 40

Same chassis as the current USPSA Limited National Champion and IPSC Standard Division World Champ.

Alan

Hi Alan,

I think Shawn is going to be limited to this list: http://www.lesbaer.com/calif.html

Perhaps not?

Later,

Chuck

[Alan Meek]

Les Baer makes a Hi-Cap 40

Same chassis as the current USPSA Limited National Champion and IPSC Standard Division World Champ.

Alan

Hi Alan,

I think Shawn is going to be limited to this list: http://www.lesbaer.com/calif.html

Perhaps not?

Later,

Chuck

True. (I forgot about the list)

[Shawn McKenna]

Hello All again,

Thanks for all the reply's, it seems that you are wanted a double stack pistol, I am ok with this, however I was told that is kind of pistol maybe too wide for me, is that if your only using one hand or what, I shoot a lot of rifles and VERY little pistols, so any help is always welcome.

I chose Les because of two reasons, one is that we have been working together for several years now on the High-power side of shooting, the second is I know he builds stuff that shoots really well and from experience his stuff is put together right so you have the fewest problems or as they are known in High-power as Alibis.

If you could choose from ANY of his pistols what one would be the best, right now I am looking at the 1911 ULTIMATE MASTER 5" MODEL, and yes it just happens to be Cali legal as well, but like I said if you could choose from any of his which one would be the best fit for this style of shooting.

Thanks,

Shawn

[kevinj308]

Hi Shawn. I'm a fellow SoCal guy here, I live in Los Angeles but grew up down your way. The advice given previously to go to some clubs and borrow/try some guns is reallly good advice. There are a few outstanding clubs in the area. Norco was mentioned, also Prado and ISI in Piru.

Based on your desire for Les Baer I'd suggest a trip up to Piru, isishootists.com for their schedule. The guy that runs the matches up there is Mike Dalton. He used to be, may still be?, a Les Baer sponsored shooter. He might be able to give you a great perspective on that product line from someone who has competed at pretty high levels in this sport. Even if you don't make it up there, give him a call. Email's not a great way to reach him, but he's a super nice and informative guy. Would definitely be worth the time. I'm sure he'd be happy to help you out.

Take care and say hi if you're up at Piru.

Kevin

[dbltapipsc]

As for equip/components I would recommend adjustable rear sight. I would also suggest ambi safeties and a magwell. If you keep it bushing barrel you will be able to shoot more divisions( L-10, single stack, various IDPA divisions, etc.) I would also look into a full length guide rod so you can tune your gun when it comes to recoil. Fiber front is is well represented, but a preference. Hope this helps.

[Shawn McKenna]

Hey Kevin,

Is Norco by Chino? Where is the range Prado at?

Thanks,

Shawn

[kevinj308]

Here's a link to Norco with a map http://www.uspsa2.org/norco.htm

Here's Prado http://www.uspsa2.org/PradoIPSC/index.htm, near the 91 and 71 interchange

And then http://isishootists.com/

Kevin

ETA that Prado runs IDPA as well, ISI runs IDPA and Steel Challenge in addition to USPSA. There's also a 3 gun club in Piru, X3 multigun.

Edited September 6, 2009 by kevinj308

[G-ManBart]

Hello All again,

Thanks for all the reply's, it seems that you are wanted a double stack pistol, I am ok with this, however I was told that is kind of pistol maybe too wide for me, is that if your only using one hand or what, I shoot a lot of rifles and VERY little pistols, so any help is always welcome.

I chose Les because of two reasons, one is that we have been working together for several years now on the High-power side of shooting, the second is I know he builds stuff that shoots really well and from experience his stuff is put together right so you have the fewest problems or as they are known in High-power as Alibis.

If you could choose from ANY of his pistols what one would be the best, right now I am looking at the 1911 ULTIMATE MASTER 5" MODEL, and yes it just happens to be Cali legal as well, but like I said if you could choose from any of his which one would be the best fit for this style of shooting.

Thanks,

Shawn

Again, it comes down to what division you're going to shoot. If you're going to stick with a single stack gun you'll only be competitive in Single Stack and Limited-10 which is fine, but something to be aware of.

For the price of the Ultimate Master 5" ($2670 list) you'd be better off getting a full custom gun built. Baer's are nice guns, but they're not as "good" or as nice as full custom and the price isn't any different so why not get a true work of art for the same money?

Picking a gun off LB's list for USPSA shooting I'd get a Premier II 5" and use the $900 left over (from the UM 5") to pay for the 7 or 8 mags you'll need, holster, belt and mag pouches (that's already up to about $500 without getting fancy). 8 Wilson ETM's ($280), CR Speed belt ($55), generic 1911 holster ($50), 5 Ready Tactical mag pouches ($115) = $500. Bump up to something like a slightly better holster or mag pouches and you'll blow right past $500.

You may wonder why so many mags....you'll see quite a few of 32-round field courses where you'll reload every time you move and 5 won't always get it done...throw in a dropped mag or one knocked off your belt and 6 is a reasonable minimum. Lots of folks start with six on the belt (less than five is very uncommon), one in the gun and a barney mag (to load the first round) in their back pocket...hence 8 as a reasonable number. Most folks have more so they don't have to clean every single mag if they're short on time for the next stage.

The funny thing (and this is no insult to you) is that 95+% of the time when people ask questions like this, they read all the responses and then go and do what they originally mentioned even if everybody here suggests a different plan

Edited September 6, 2009 by G-ManBart

[Chills1994]

a Les Bear...good grief... I am such a cheap a$$.

[kevinj308]

"The funny thing (and this is no insult to you) is that 95+% of the time people ask questions like this, read all the responses and then go and do what they originally mentioned even if everybody here suggests a different plan surprise.gif"

You know that's true no matter what the pursuit. I used to work in the recreational scuba business. No matter what the answers to the questions were, they still bought the gear they just read about in the latest scuba magazine. Just seems like a funny aspect of human nature.

G-man just gave some perfect advice with numbers to match. Sounds like the OP is focused on Baer because of an existing relationship. Considering we both live in CA and getting a hi cap mag to go with that double stack .40 is a problem L-10 is a great choice to play in, single stack as well, and Baer does make good gear for both those divisions.

[Litlratt]

Hi Shawn. Fellow Highpower and LR shooter here.

Noticed your scores from Perry this year, looks like you're getting there

G-Mans' advice is very good and imho should be seriously considered.

Needless to say, but no alibis in this sport, the timer keeps ticking.

Even the best built guns may not run flawlessly for you. They are merely a piece of the puzzle, albeit a very important piece.

[98sr20ve]

What pistols do you own now and how many magazines for those pistols?

[Shawn McKenna]

Hello Pezco,

Thanks for the offer, however I already spent the money and it is with Les Baer's shop, and he just needs to know what pistol to build for me, that is why I am asking which one would be the best for this style of shooting. Thanks for the offer though.

Hello Litlratt,

I am not too sure if you are talking about this year's score (2009) if so this was one of my worst years at perry in a long time, like since 2000 or so. I was shooting really well but my groups just kept coming up in the wrong places on the target. Oh well better luck next time, or in other words sometimes the bear gets you and sometimes you get him, looks like it was his turn.

Hello Kevinj308,

What is the L-10 division and the single stack division, what is the advantage of shooting one over the other? I am having a hard time understanding the divisions I guess, I am used to only two divisions in High-power, Service and Match, any help is much appreciated.

Hello G-man,

I understand what you saying, however I am in a position that the pistol is going to be a Very Good Deal money wise, and I will have to buy the other stuff as well, if you know of a good place to get the gear I am all ears as I have no clue where to find this stuff and what is good and what is not worth spending your money on.

Thanks you all your help,

Shawn

[justforfun]

Shawn,

It sounds like one of the best things you could do is to visit a match and talk with the people there. They will normaly go out of thier way to explain divisions, equipment and answer questions to help you get started. A lot of them will also let you try out thier gear to see what you like and don't like.

Good luck

[Derek45]

a 5" 40 single stack will not be competitive in Limited division because you will burn up too much time with more reloads than all the other Limited division shooters.

Either Limited-10 or Single stack division would work better if you want to avoid a hi-cap frame.

Limited 10 division is a similar division that does not allow loading more than 10 rounds in a mag.

(wilson 10 round mags)

Single stack is THE division for your 40 or 45ACP 8 round blaster.

Usually, when someone spends money on a firearm, and then joins a sport, they often learn they bought the wrong tool for the job.

If I said I want to shoot service rifle, "which 14.5" Baer M4 should I get?", you'd probably be saying the same thing.

A Les Baer with bo-mars, a magwell and ambi safety would make a damn fine lim-10 or SS gun.

Edited September 6, 2009 by Derek45

[G-ManBart]

Thanks for the offer, however I already spent the money and it is with Les Baer's shop, and he just needs to know what pistol to build for me, that is why I am asking which one would be the best for this style of shooting. Thanks for the offer though.

That might have been helpful to put in the first or second post, don't you think? Something to keep in mind is that on this site you're getting the collective experience of literally the very best USPSA/IPSC/IDPA shooters in the world (not saying I'm one of them), not a bunch of hacks that you'll find on 99% of the sites out there. So, when people recommend things here, it's for a reason. If you come out and say "hey, I've got credit at LB and want to have a gun built for USPSA it will change the responses greatly.

What is the L-10 division and the single stack division, what is the advantage of shooting one over the other? I am having a hard time understanding the divisions I guess, I am used to only two divisions in High-power, Service and Match, any help is much appreciated.

Go to www.uspsa.org and read the Match Rules section and find the January 2008 Handgun Rulebook and go to Section 5.1 Handguns where it will tell you they are broken down into Divisions. Appendix D has sections for each of the Divisions and will explain what is and what is not allowed.

Since nobody seems to want to actually read the rules, the Cliff Notes version is here...keep in mind it leaves out a few details. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=261346

I understand what you saying, however I am in a position that the pistol is going to be a Very Good Deal money wise, and I will have to buy the other stuff as well, if you know of a good place to get the gear I am all ears as I have no clue where to find this stuff and what is good and what is not worth spending your money on.

Okay, so you're saying you're going to buy the Ultimate Master even if a whole bunch of people suggest otherwise? If that's the case, why are you even asking?

Sure, it's a nice gun, but even at good deal prices I wouldn't pick the UM....and I can afford anything on his list or any other gunsmith's list, so it's not about money. Almost everyone winds up changing stuff on their guns until they have enough experience to know from the start exactly how they want a gun set up. You're not at that point yet so you're just paying for things you may not want/need in a couple of months. This is where getting with your local club, seeing what people are using and trying as much as you can makes all the difference. You can screw around and try to do it remotely by reading but you'll save yourself a lot of time and trouble by just meeting the local shooters.

There really isn't much stuff that falls into the "not worth buying". I know there's plenty of stuff in high power that falls into that category (have shot a fair amount of that in the past) but for the most part in USPSA you need what you need and there isn't a whole lot of gimmick stuff available.

The vendors section here is awesome. You likely won't find better prices or better service anywhere. For the belt and mags I'd go with Chuck and Mike at Shooter's connection....and pick up one of their shooting bags while you're at it....won't find a better bag anywhere. For the mag pouches I mentioned I'd go with Chris at CPWSA. You could talk to either of those places and pick a holster, but it'll depend on what division you're shooting. Single Stack rules are different than Limited-10 rules when it comes to holsters. There are models you can choose that will work for either by swapping out a hanger/attachment. Ask those guys and they can narrow it down for you. R,

Edited September 6, 2009 by G-ManBart

[Chills1994]

Derek wrote:

A Les Baer with bo-mars, a magwell and ambi safety would make a damn fine lim-10 or SS gun.

Yeah, almost too fine of an L-10 or SS gun.

I was at an impromptu pick up USPSA match where a guy with a Life membership number dropped his $3,000 Knighthawk custom 1911 onto a bare concrete sidewalk, as he was gasing it up after the "Make ready!" command.

Since it was a "pick up match", we didn't send him home.

Two things I learned that day:

1. Having an "L" in front of your member number doesn't amount to a hill of beans when it comes to proficiency/safety/experience.

2. People who buy uber expensive boutique type guns don't necessarily know what they are doing either. Said another way, if I see a guy I don't recognize at a match with some high end pistola, I will be putting him under the magnifing glass when he steps up to the line and I give him the "Make ready!" command.

It's no fun looking at the business of a cocked and UNlocked 1911. The .45 cal muzzle end looks to be about 2 inches across when it ends up pointing at you.

[Larry White]

The LB single stacks are without a doubt good pistols. They are just not good limited limited divisions pistols, single stack or L10, you betcha, I would shoot one. I would want adjustable sights and a mag well, also make sure it will make wieght for single stack division. Read the rules, get the pistol and buy the rest of your gear to fit the division you choose and shoot the snot out of it.--------------Larry

[Chills1994]

Google search results for "Shawn McKenna + Les Baer"

^^^ that could clear up some things for us Brian Enos forum regulars who thought Shawn was some greenhorn who was just infatuated with the Les Baer name and had a bundle of cash burning a hole in his pocket.

[kevinj308]

hey Shawn, sent you a PM.