Exercise for Oldsters

[Graham Smith]

OK, I admit it, I don't get nearly enough exercise. I sit behind a computer most of the day and any time I do get any exercise I end up stiff and sore. This past week, I had my semi-annual doctor vist to check my blood pressure, cholesterol, etc... The doctor suggested that it would do me good to take a class in Tai Chi or Qigong to help me "get the blood flowing a bit more."

I have heard mixed reviews about both and was wondering if anyone here had any experience. If so, Netflix has a couple pages of DVDs devoted to this and that seemed a good place to start and get an idea of what I was letting myself into. Any suggestions?

[Jake Di Vita]

I'd heavily recommend CrossFit, the zone, and loads of fish oil.

[Neomet]

Tai Chi is a very low impact excercise that will increase your balance quite a bit and give you more of a workout than it looks like. Qigong is externally pretty similar but focuses more on moving Qi through the body. If you don't believe in Qi or moving it they are essentially identical. Both are pretty easy to get started in.

Hey Jake, does fish oil still taste like crap or is there something new out there that is more palatable these days?

[Graham Smith]

I'd heavily recommend CrossFit

You gonna pay the hospital bills?

[atbarr]

I'd heavily recommend CrossFit

You gonna pay the hospital bills?

I can relate.

A.T.

[dirty whiteboy]

Buy a good pair of running/walking shoes and start walking. Slow at first but then pick up speed and distance over the course of a few months.

try to do a pushing exercise for your upper body, (push ups, shoulder press) and a pulling exercise(dumbell row or assisted chins). I would also do something to build leg strength. Wall squats would be a good.

Try to walk almost everyday, and do your leg work and upper body work early in the week if you are shooting on a weekend. You don't need hours of exercise. You just need a few quality exercises once or twice a week, no more! Perscription is for those over 35 yrs old or those who played dare devil of the month when they were younger!!

[Viggen]

Jake

Crossfit is something folks come to after studying and figuring out what doesn't work. Can't just jump into Crossfit without thinking a bit about health, nutrition, and such, unless somebody is a teenage rubber body that works no matter what is done to it.

Tai Chi has much to offer - movement is the important thing.

Zone is a bit "out there" for me. I'm more comfortable with Paleo or Paleo Zone.

And yep, fish oil still tastes like crap but you can use fish oil capsuls these days.

Edited September 1, 2009 by Viggen

[Jake Di Vita]

Hey Jake, does fish oil still taste like crap or is there something new out there that is more palatable these days?

I take 1000mg pills (which only have about 300 mg of DHA and EPA) there is no taste with them. If you're talking the fish oil burps, those happen because the pills you take are rancid. Good fish oils pills taste like absolutely nothing.

You gonna pay the hospital bills?

Nope, actually CrossFit coupled with proper nutrition will undoubtedly save you astronomical amounts of money in that area. Not to mention let you do more, increase your overall health and work capacity, and rehab many injuries you've probably been living with for quite a while.

When you think you CF, you probably think of 25 year olds throwing 150 pounds over their head 30 times in 2 minutes. Yes that is a facet of CrossFit, but don't forget that it is scalable for absolutely anyone, regardless of age or ability level. The needs of our olympic athletes and grandparents differ by degree not by kind. When considering the 10 general physical skills (cardiorespiratory endurance, strength, stamina, flexibility, speed, power, coordination, accuracy, agility, and balance) everyone needs and uses them. The athlete may be looking for functional dominance in one or more of these area whereas someone in your situation is only looking for functional competence.

The exercises that increase these are the same, we just scale by reps, load, time, rest, etc. By doing so we utilize the same functional movements and their ability to manifest capacity in whomever does them consistently and correctly, but we do it at the client's physiological and psychological thresholds.

Jake

Crossfit is something folks come to after studying and figuring out what doesn't work. Can't just jump into Crossfit without thinking a bit about health, nutrition, and such, unless somebody is a teenage rubber body that works no matter what is done to it.

Tai Chi has much to offer - movement is the important thing.

Zone is a bit "out there" for me. I'm more comfortable with Paleo or Paleo Zone.

Where do you get that info from? Hundreds of seniors, cancer survivors, athletes, grandparents, moms, and physically disabled people will disagree with you. Health, nutrition, and every other aspect of health of fitness is always considered by any CrossFit trainer worth his/her salt. By the very definition of CrossFit we are looking to improve health, and doing a damn good job of it.

Also, the zone as prescribed from Dr. Sears is damn close to Paleo by definition. The zone in CF circles has been bastardized a bit, but it's still far better than conventional "nutrition."

[Viggen]

I had better misread what I wrote again. I thought I said nice things about crossfit and that style of doing things. What I was getting at, or thought I was getting at, was that most folks don't get around to crossfit until they have looked at a lot of other things and conclude that crossfit may have something to offer.

[Graham Smith]

YO! PEOPLE! CAN I DRAG THIS BACK TO THE ORIGINAL TOPIC, THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!

The reason the doctor recommended Tai Chi, etc, has a lot to do with the fact that I live and work center city in a Metropolitan area - not a lot of people out strolling down the streets in the evening. Basically, he thought it would be good for me to get started in some kind of low impact exercise program that I could do at home that would not require any special equipment and that I could do year round even when it was snowing. This is mainly about improving my circulation not trying to get back into the shape I was in 1990 when I left the Army - IOW, I'm not going to go out at lunch and run 3 miles then do a set of free weights like I used to.

Like I said in my post, this is what the doctor suggested I look into and it's what I am looking into. I appreciate that this may not be everyone's idea of good exercise but it is what I am trying to find out about. So, can we drop all the Crossfit discussion and get back to the topic.

Does anyone here do Tai Chi or Qigong and/or know much about it. And are there any DVD's worth having a look at so I can try and get a feel for the basics?

[badchad]

I did Tai Chi once. It reminded me of doing katas while trapped in a jello mold. Personally I found it tedious thought that kind of stuff with would raise my blood pressure. I imagine it would do good things for your circulation but not any better than regular exercise, probably not even as good as using a treadmill or an elliptical machine.

If you’re just out of shape and don’t have any major orthopedic issues I’d explore Jake’s advice about the CrossFit.

[Jack T]

Everyone is different and you have to find out what works for you. I am a 56 year old, cancer survivor, and I can still spank the young kids when it comes to shooting and moving.

Like my 90 year old uncle tells me all the time, look you little bas@#%d, you don't get in shape, you STAY in shape.

Our sport is more physical than shooting. Like Phil Strader once said, the order of importance: Physical conditioning, gun handling, and then shooting ability.

Target the muscles you use which are mainly core muscles. You do not have to go out and run 3 miles to get in shape. The most important leg muscles are the inside obliques (inside of thighs) these are the muscles which give you the explosive power in and out of boxes and from a dead start. Work these by doing box drills (jump from flat feet up on an object and down) or by biking. Not pleasure pedaling, but like Bicycle Motocross Pedaling. Short intense exercise, take a break and repetition. Lots of pushups, situps and pullups.

I recommend using dumb bells for shrugs, curls, and military press and if you have a bench then the various bench exercises for strength.

Physical endurance is great, but we spend most of the time pasting targets, and sitting on our asses getting ready to shoot a stage of fire that only last for a few seconds. Endurance will get you thru the day, but you have to train in fast intense sessions that replicate the intenstity of a stage/course of fire. Sit down when you are not busy taping, etc. Conserve energy!!

If you want to run, I recommend wind sprints over distance running. Again you HAVE to replicate what you do at a match. Quick bursts of speed. I found that when I ran for distance, it does not develpe the fast twitch muscles. You have got to develope the muscles the way you use them in a competition. Cross training is great, but just how much time do you have to train. Prioritize your traing and stick with it.

You just gotta have the comittment to do it. What are your goals? Is the shooting important enough that you take your fat ass out and accomplish getting in shape and staying in shape. Not implying that you are a fat ass, just a means of expression.

Later,

Jack Travers

PS: F@#k Tai Chi. When was the last time you did tai chi at a match?? Get your ass out and work

Edited September 2, 2009 by Jack T

[XRe]

The most important leg muscles are the inside obliques (inside of thighs)

Adductors!

these are the muscles which give you the explosive power in and out of boxes and from a dead start.

They're important, but you need the big muscles - quads, hamstrings, and glutes - to make all that happen... The box jumps you mentioned work all of those things... Glutes, hams, and quads are your power - adductors assist (they're part of the posterior chain used to squat) and help launch side to side, but their primary role would appear to be stability.

Endurance will get you thru the day, but you have to train in fast intense sessions that replicate the intenstity of a stage/course of fire.

...

....

PS: F@#k Tai Chi. When was the last time you did tai chi at a match?? Get your ass out and work

[Neomet]

Graham, I haven't done Tai Chi in some time but most practitioners do one or maybe two types to Tai Chi. There is what is called 10 form and 24 form. Most do 24 form. There are some variations to 24 form but quite honestly it doesn't really matter for your purposes at this point. Any of the DVDs which take you step by step through the process will be fine if you do well spatially. Some folks have a hard time duplicating the movements by watching a video because it is a mirror image of what they will be doing (when the instructor in the video says go right they move left in the video). My girlfriend at the time simply couldn't learn from watching video so we took some classes which made the learning much easier. It is very similar to learning a dance.

[badchad]

The most important leg muscles are the inside obliques (inside of thighs) these are the muscles which give you the explosive power in and out of boxes and from a dead start. Work these by doing box drills (jump from flat feet up on an object and down) or by biking.

That’s like saying: “The most important thing to accuracy is your extractor (the circular thing that the bullet flys out of). It’s the part of the gun that ensures you are keeping everything aligned with the target, and you can improve it by scrubbing your magazines.”

[Jake Di Vita]

YO! PEOPLE! CAN I DRAG THIS BACK TO THE ORIGINAL TOPIC, THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!

The reason the doctor recommended Tai Chi, etc, has a lot to do with the fact that I live and work center city in a Metropolitan area - not a lot of people out strolling down the streets in the evening. Basically, he thought it would be good for me to get started in some kind of low impact exercise program that I could do at home that would not require any special equipment and that I could do year round even when it was snowing. This is mainly about improving my circulation not trying to get back into the shape I was in 1990 when I left the Army - IOW, I'm not going to go out at lunch and run 3 miles then do a set of free weights like I used to.

Like I said in my post, this is what the doctor suggested I look into and it's what I am looking into. I appreciate that this may not be everyone's idea of good exercise but it is what I am trying to find out about. So, can we drop all the Crossfit discussion and get back to the topic.

Does anyone here do Tai Chi or Qigong and/or know much about it. And are there any DVD's worth having a look at so I can try and get a feel for the basics?

We've never strayed from the original topic, which was "Exercise for Oldsters."

Unfortunately, the majority of doctors really don't know what they're talking about when it comes to fitness and yes even health.

The actual fitness required for most of Tai Chi is negligible at best. If that's what you really want to do, talk to Steve Moneypenny about it, from my understanding he's pretty accomplished in Tai Chi and other martial arts, but don't confuse doing Tai Chi with exercise that will enable you to do more and keep you around longer. Yes, CF is hard work, but anyone who's accomplished anything of value knows that nothing good comes from things that are "easy."

Good luck in your endeavor for better health. I strongly recommend trying CF for 1 month and then seeing how you feel. You might be surprised, and your doctor sure as hell will be next time he does your blood work.

[Jack T]

The most important leg muscles are the inside obliques (inside of thighs) these are the muscles which give you the explosive power in and out of boxes and from a dead start. Work these by doing box drills (jump from flat feet up on an object and down) or by biking.

That’s like saying: “The most important thing to accuracy is your extractor (the circular thing that the bullet flys out of). It’s the part of the gun that ensures you are keeping everything aligned with the target, and you can improve it by scrubbing your magazines.”

I didn't say the most important muscle overall, I said the most important LEG muscle. If you target these leg muscles, the major muscles get worked out also. Kinda hard to target/isolate one muscle without working out the rest. Especially in the legs.

Jack

Edited September 2, 2009 by Jack T

[badchad]

I didn't say the most important muscle overall, I said the most important LEG muscle. If you target these leg muscles, the major muscles get worked out also. Kinda hard to target/isolate one muscle without working out the rest. Especially in the legs.

But as Dave mentioned the muscles you named aren't leg muscles, obliques are abdominal muscles. Also I think it very difficult to argue that the adductors are most important or prime mover leg muscles in any shooting activity. And the exercises you listed don't target the adductors, they are just stabilizers in them.

[badchad]

YO! PEOPLE! CAN I DRAG THIS BACK TO THE ORIGINAL TOPIC, THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!

The reason the doctor recommended Tai Chi, etc, has a lot to do with the fact that I live and work center city in a Metropolitan area - not a lot of people out strolling down the streets in the evening. Basically, he thought it would be good for me to get started in some kind of low impact exercise program that I could do at home that would not require any special equipment and that I could do year round even when it was snowing. This is mainly about improving my circulation not trying to get back into the shape I was in 1990 when I left the Army - IOW, I'm not going to go out at lunch and run 3 miles then do a set of free weights like I used to.

Like I said in my post, this is what the doctor suggested I look into and it's what I am looking into. I appreciate that this may not be everyone's idea of good exercise but it is what I am trying to find out about. So, can we drop all the Crossfit discussion and get back to the topic.

Does anyone here do Tai Chi or Qigong and/or know much about it. And are there any DVD's worth having a look at so I can try and get a feel for the basics?

That’s like saying, (I’m on a roll). CAN WE GET BACK TO MY ORIGINAL TOPIC, THANK YOU! What rifle is best for 3-gun?

My psychologist says I should shoot a mini-14. I shot an AR15 in the army and was a good shot with it, but I’m not trying to shoot as good as I shot back then. Plus my shrink says I can dryfire my mini-14 at home. So stop talking to me about AR15s. I only want to hear from guys who shoot mini-14s.

[Jack T]

I didn't say the most important muscle overall, I said the most important LEG muscle. If you target these leg muscles, the major muscles get worked out also. Kinda hard to target/isolate one muscle without working out the rest. Especially in the legs.

But as Dave mentioned the muscles you named aren't leg muscles, obliques are abdominal muscles. Also I think it very difficult to argue that the adductors are most important or prime mover leg muscles in any shooting activity. And the exercises you listed don't target the adductors, they are just stabilizers in them.

I think of what I read once, when I read your posts. Argueing on the forum is like running in the special olympics. You may win the race, but you are still retarded.

Have a nice day, I gotta go!!

Jack

Edited September 2, 2009 by Jack T

[badchad]

Son, you need to look at the definition of oblique. I am not getting in a pissing contest with you, I know what the name of the muscles are, but I did not want to get technical, kept it general.

http://joespila-t-shop.typepad.com/.a/6a00...43bb78834-320pi

I think the best way to judge someones knowledge is see how they perform. I can stand behind my training, because I know it works. How about you?

In my years as a competitive weightlifter I snatched 275 lb and clean and jerked 347 lb. I won AWA Nationals (not near as good as winning USAW Nationals but still cool to tell girls) in 98. I’m just shy of my M card in shooting. I have a BS in Exercise Science (Summa Cum Laude) and my Masters in Physical Therapy.

I’m not trying to get in any contest either, but important details of your advice were factually incorrect. And that would not be affected by any degrees, cards or trophies.

[badchad]

Also I would like to add that I do think the CrossFit program is the best program, I know of, that’s out there as far as general fitness and for what we do. Scientifically it’s pretty sound, it’s efficient, and pretty much all encompassing.

Just not for atbar.

[Graham Smith]

Moderators: Please close this topic. I'm sorry I ever asked the question in the first place. I'll know better next time.

[Jadeslade]

Tai Chi is a centering, very mild isometric and stretching type of exercise that you can actually do in about 12 square feet of floor space. I do it daily, first thing and last thing. Very compatible with yoga. I am sure you can find a trainer in Minneapolis that could show you. The main thing is to do it daily.

Jake is correct in that Crossfit and other types of intense exercise programs have no age or other restrictions, you just need a trainers guidance.

[dirty whiteboy]

Then listen to your Dr, most of them live to the ripe old average age of 58!

Edited September 2, 2009 by dirty whiteboy