Beer Drinking and Muzzle Rise

[Sam]

Yes!

And then I drop the glass.

[Sam]

After shooting a given gun/load for a bit, your body learns and remembers, as the shot fires, how to quickly get the sights back in alignment. It's nothing that can be taught, you just have to shoot, and your body will figure it out. Ed McGivern called it a "poke" move. You just learn to poke the muzzle back into alignment. (Of course a good grip assists in that, but that's not my point here.)

-be

Getting back to the post that started the whole thing. Is the "remembering" that the body does a help or a hindrance? It seems that it could be both. A help if I remain aware, but a hindrance if I let my attention trail off.

[benos]

My attention must have been on where i was going with it or the way it was going to taste, or something else that hadn't happened yet.

Yes. All errors are the result of that same mistake.

After shooting a given gun/load for a bit, your body learns and remembers, as the shot fires, how to quickly get the sights back in alignment. It's nothing that can be taught, you just have to shoot, and your body will figure it out. Ed McGivern called it a "poke" move. You just learn to poke the muzzle back into alignment. (Of course a good grip assists in that, but that's not my point here.)

-be

Getting back to the post that started the whole thing. Is the "remembering" that the body does a help or a hindrance? It seems that it could be both. A help if I remain aware, but a hindrance if I let my attention trail off.

No answer.

Definitely a help if aware. But we can also do many repetitive actions extremely well while our attention is somewhere else.

But being aware is always best. There's nothing that habit can do that attention can't do better.

be

[38supPat]

Does personality type make a difference here? It was posted earlier that TGO could change things at the last minute or work on things up to the last minute and not have it upset his shooting. Todd was also referenced earlier about keeping everything the same year after year. Now I also saw in an article a short while back that Leatham said that he could feel no real difference between a .40 and a .45 loaded similarily, whereas Todd said the difference was very noticible to him...

I myself have found that I can make a substantial change before a major match if I feel it is better and I will perform better. Eg. my best performance at the US Nationals was a week or two after I got my IMM which was a radically different gun from what I had been shooting and recently I changed from 3n37 to a new load using N350 right before the provincials and shot an excellent match.

[Sam]

Does personality type make a difference here?

I'm thinking that it probably does, Pat. Personality type seems to influence the shooting game in so many ways. I need to start another thread that this thread has inspired. -sam

[benos]

Does personality type make a difference here? It was posted earlier that TGO could change things at the last minute or work on things up to the last minute and not have it upset his shooting. Todd was also referenced earlier about keeping everything the same year after year. Now I also saw in an article a short while back that Leatham said that he could feel no real difference between a .40 and a .45 loaded similarily, whereas Todd said the difference was very noticible to him...

That makes sense, if you know that Robbie is gross motor skilled (ISFP), and Todd is fine motor skilled (ISTP).

They're also both "P-types," which affects their match performance in a couple ways. P-types visually "open up" under pressure - they see more in a larger area. They're naturally able to keep track of more stuff at the same time than J-types. Whereas under pressure J-types usually go more into "tunnel vision" mode.

The second factor is that P-types tend to me more flexible and adaptable, in life in general as well as under pressure.

That triggered a funny memory. Once I overheard Robbie comparing Todd's and Jerry "The Burner" Barnhart's shooting styles. Without knowing anything whatsoever about Temperament, he said Todd's (P-type) advantage was that if something went wrong during the run, he could adapt easier and quicker than The Burner (J-type; ISTJ) could.

That was very true. For The Burner to have his best runs, he really needed to have the time to have his plan solidly burned into his brain. But Todd or Robbie could more easily just see a stage and shoot it.

be

[James W]

Remember, drinking makes your brain work faster... according to Norm, from Cheers. Brain cells are like zebras in Africa, and beer is like the lions. Beer, like a pack of lions, kill off the slowest and weakest of the herd, taking only the animals (brain cells) that cannot keep up. In this way, the fastest animals tend to procreate more, and their genes live on to evolve and improve the species.

By this analogy, alcohol kills off the slowest, and weakest brain cells, freeing up the faster, stronger cells to handle the load.

Therefore, regular alcohol consumption makes your brain faster, and stronger.

Simple science.

JeffWard

Nice one Jeff

That is real scary & funny at the same time. So I'm wheather to be ether.

Great post B! Nice food for thought, in this case beer.

[murkish]

Brian,

A month or so back, I was at the range shooting groups with my Glock 24 Limited Gun. I switched over to my Browning Buckmark and on the first couple of shots, it was very apparent how much I was subconsciously fighting the recoil of the Glock. The Buckmark was spraying bullets all over the target as I man-handled it. I settled down and focused on relaxing everything else and just working the trigger finger. After two magazines, I switched back to the Glock and continued with the focus on the trigger finger. My groups shrank by 50%.

What I took from that was, that sometimes my automatic adjustments are positive and sometimes they are negative. It depends on the desired result and comes back to balancing accuracy and speed. To switch from one mode to another, one just recognize exactly what one is really doing to achieve the desired result. The trick is to then practice it so that it can be repeated without conscious thought, just like the can of beer that gets progressively lighter as one drinks it.

Jack

After shooting a given gun/load for a bit, your body learns and remembers, as the shot fires, how to quickly get the sights back in alignment. It's nothing that can be taught, you just have to shoot, and your body will figure it out. Ed McGivern called it a "poke" move. You just learn to poke the muzzle back into alignment. (Of course a good grip assists in that, but that's not my point here.)

[benos]

Brian,

A month or so back, I was at the range shooting groups with my Glock 24 Limited Gun. I switched over to my Browning Buckmark and on the first couple of shots, it was very apparent how much I was subconsciously fighting the recoil of the Glock. The Buckmark was spraying bullets all over the target as I man-handled it. I settled down and focused on relaxing everything else and just working the trigger finger. After two magazines, I switched back to the Glock and continued with the focus on the trigger finger. My groups shrank by 50%.

What I took from that was, that sometimes my automatic adjustments are positive and sometimes they are negative. It depends on the desired result and comes back to balancing accuracy and speed. To switch from one mode to another, one just recognize exactly what one is really doing to achieve the desired result. The trick is to then practice it so that it can be repeated without conscious thought, just like the can of beer that gets progressively lighter as one drinks it.

Yes. The trick lies in finding what to pay attention to that yields the best overall results. It's so easy to sink into rote practice mode. Each time you shoot, shoot as if you've never shot before.

be

[Avezorak]

Can you explain how to shoot as if you have never shot before? I cant quite get my head around that one.

Edited November 19, 2009 by Duane Thomas

[benos]

Can you explain how to shoot as if you have never shot before? I cant quite get my head around that one.

One time I asked a student to shoot a string of fire, and then tell me something he saw that he'd never seen before.

be

[Bill Schwab]

That makes sense, if you know that Robbie is gross motor skilled (ISFP), and Todd is fine motor skilled (ISTP).

They're also both "P-types," which affects their match performance in a couple ways. P-types visually "open up" under pressure - they see more in a larger area. They're naturally able to keep track of more stuff at the same time than J-types. Whereas under pressure J-types usually go more into "tunnel vision" mode.

The second factor is that P-types tend to me more flexible and adaptable, in life in general as well as under pressure.

That triggered a funny memory. Once I overheard Robbie comparing Todd's and Jerry "The Burner" Barnhart's shooting styles. Without knowing anything whatsoever about Temperament, he said Todd's (P-type) advantage was that if something went wrong during the run, he could adapt easier and quicker than The Burner (J-type; ISTJ) could.

That was very true. For The Burner to have his best runs, he really needed to have the time to have his plan solidly burned into his brain. But Todd or Robbie could more easily just see a stage and shoot it.

be

This info is gold. It explains why, as an ISTJ, I get all thrown off balance when my stage strategy doesn't go as planned. And I always have a tough time if I don't have enough time to get my plan ingrained in my thick skull.

This thread reminds me of the Single Stack Classic in, I think it was, 2002. I had just finished Rob's free class and he asked me to come give him a hand. I had to hold his 1911 while he moved the sights. Apparently his sights weren't sitting in the dead center of the slide and he said it drove him crazy (thanks for the info Rob, it now drives me crazy...ignorance was bliss). Anyways, I couldn't believe he was messing with his sights the day before the match! And then he said something about going to Heinie's shop and borrowing a file to fix the checkering on the underside of the triggerguard that was too sharp

[jmorris]

When you think about it, isn't it amazing that your body can "remember" the correct amount of effort/force to use each time you pick up a beer can?

Is this a trick question? They are always 12oz and you shouldn't put them down until safe (empty), I figured you guys would know better...

[benos]

That makes sense, if you know that Robbie is gross motor skilled (ISFP), and Todd is fine motor skilled (ISTP).

They're also both "P-types," which affects their match performance in a couple ways. P-types visually "open up" under pressure - they see more in a larger area. They're naturally able to keep track of more stuff at the same time than J-types. Whereas under pressure J-types usually go more into "tunnel vision" mode.

The second factor is that P-types tend to me more flexible and adaptable, in life in general as well as under pressure.

That triggered a funny memory. Once I overheard Robbie comparing Todd's and Jerry "The Burner" Barnhart's shooting styles. Without knowing anything whatsoever about Temperament, he said Todd's (P-type) advantage was that if something went wrong during the run, he could adapt easier and quicker than The Burner (J-type; ISTJ) could.

That was very true. For The Burner to have his best runs, he really needed to have the time to have his plan solidly burned into his brain. But Todd or Robbie could more easily just see a stage and shoot it.

be

This info is gold. It explains why, as an ISTJ, I get all thrown off balance when my stage strategy doesn't go as planned. And I always have a tough time if I don't have enough time to get my plan ingrained in my thick skull.

This thread reminds me of the Single Stack Classic in, I think it was, 2002. I had just finished Rob's free class and he asked me to come give him a hand. I had to hold his 1911 while he moved the sights. Apparently his sights weren't sitting in the dead center of the slide and he said it drove him crazy (thanks for the info Rob, it now drives me crazy...ignorance was bliss). Anyways, I couldn't believe he was messing with his sights the day before the match! And then he said something about going to Heinie's shop and borrowing a file to fix the checkering on the underside of the triggerguard that was too sharp

Yes - Robbie's the KING of modifying his equipment right before he shoots a match, and even during the match! It makes him sharper, while it would drive an ISTJ nuts.

be

[Mo Hepworth]

I notice it when I have been shooting standard .40 major at 175pf and then go back to 9mm 135pf for production.