What EXACTLY do you see?

[Singlestack]

I see that sometimes. Usually depends on lighting. I rarely see it outdoors, but sometimes indoors. I can blink my left eye and it goes away Its almost like my left eye quits "seeing".

[TheDarkOne]

I see that sometimes. Usually depends on lighting. I rarely see it outdoors, but sometimes indoors. I can blink my left eye and it goes away Its almost like my left eye quits "seeing".

Wow, wouldn't that be nice! I always see this, no matter what. It gets pretty confusing as to which target is the 'right' one, especially when they all look the same and start to overlap each other. I figure it is something I just have to get used to.

[Corey]

The ghost targets arent an issue by themselves but when you get 3 or 4 targets in an array close together, it can get confusing in a hurry! haha

[sniperfrog]

I shoot both eyes open and if I focus on my front sight my shooting goes to hell. I get two images of the target and if there's multiply targets like head plates, I can't tell which one i need to shoot. I've always used a target focus and that's how I shoot best. Through the military, I've been to alot of shooting schools and worked with alot of great shooters. I have no problem with a target focus. I know this website is dedicated to competition but in my opinion a target focus is more realistic for self defense. That's what I always train for so that's what I use. Maybe I won't be a world champion but I know I can hit the bad guy when I need to .

[Singlestack]

I see that sometimes. Usually depends on lighting. I rarely see it outdoors, but sometimes indoors. I can blink my left eye and it goes away Its almost like my left eye quits "seeing".

Wow, wouldn't that be nice! I always see this, no matter what. It gets pretty confusing as to which target is the 'right' one, especially when they all look the same and start to overlap each other. I figure it is something I just have to get used to.

It sounds like your eyes are very close in dominance. Try the tape on the lens trick.

[TheDarkOne]

It sounds like your eyes are very close in dominance. Try the tape on the lens trick.

Interesting. I think my desire to shoot either hand, either eye has led to this non-dominance. I have been doing a lot of dry fire practice, aiming at objects left handed with my left eye so I can get used to it. I bet you if I only practiced right handed and right eyed, the double image would be much less noticeable or non-existent. I am sure taping my glasses would work, but I don't want to rely on a 'trick'. It is just something I need to get used to.

[TheDarkOne]

I shoot both eyes open and if I focus on my front sight my shooting goes to hell. I get two images of the target and if there's multiply targets like head plates, I can't tell which one i need to shoot. I've always used a target focus and that's how I shoot best. Through the military, I've been to alot of shooting schools and worked with alot of great shooters. I have no problem with a target focus. I know this website is dedicated to competition but in my opinion a target focus is more realistic for self defense. That's what I always train for so that's what I use. Maybe I won't be a world champion but I know I can hit the bad guy when I need to .

You don't have to give up on front sight focus just because you see two images. Like you, everyone here starts with target focus. The difference is that before they break off the shot, they drop back to the front sight to refine their sight picture. The only complexity, as someone who see double, is that when you drop back to focus on your front sight, you will notice another target appear. This not a big deal, because you will already be aiming at the 'real' one; simply ignore the one that suddenly appeared. After you break that shot off and call it a hit, you will focus on the next target and start the whole process over again. This is something that needs to be practiced of course, but it is very attainable and will result in better shot placement.

Edited February 1, 2010 by TheDarkOne

[Singlestack]

I see that sometimes. Usually depends on lighting. I rarely see it outdoors, but sometimes indoors. I can blink my left eye and it goes away Its almost like my left eye quits "seeing".

Wow, wouldn't that be nice! I always see this, no matter what. It gets pretty confusing as to which target is the 'right' one, especially when they all look the same and start to overlap each other. I figure it is something I just have to get used to.

I remember a piece of steel that I had to shoot through 2 barrels set very close together (about 3 inches apart) and about a foot from the end of my muzzel. During the walk through I noticed that when I tried to focus on my thumb (I do this while "air gunning" a stage) while looking between the barrels, my focus went nuts. My left eye wanted the barrel and my right eye was having a lot of trouble finding my thumb. I closed my left eye and I had a clear thumb. So, when it came time to shoot I remembered this and closed my left eye for that shot! Most everyone else had a hard time with it.

I thought it was a very clever stage design.

[TheDarkOne]

Yeah, I try to shoot everything 2 eyes open all the time, but sometimes I have to cheat a bit. When I get mixed up during a stage, seeing double images and not knowing which is the correct one, I will do quick blink of the non aiming eye to verify my aim. This reorients me so I can go back to 2 eyes open shooting.

[sniperfrog]

I shoot both eyes open and if I focus on my front sight my shooting goes to hell. I get two images of the target and if there's multiply targets like head plates, I can't tell which one i need to shoot. I've always used a target focus and that's how I shoot best. Through the military, I've been to alot of shooting schools and worked with alot of great shooters. I have no problem with a target focus. I know this website is dedicated to competition but in my opinion a target focus is more realistic for self defense. That's what I always train for so that's what I use. Maybe I won't be a world champion but I know I can hit the bad guy when I need to .

You don't have to give up on front sight focus just because you see two images. Like you, everyone here starts with target focus. The difference is that before they break off the shot, they drop back to the front sight to refine their sight picture. The only complexity, as someone who see double, is that when you drop back to focus on your front sight, you will notice another target appear. This not a big deal, because you will already be aiming at the 'real' one; simply ignore the one that suddenly appeared. After you break that shot off and call it a hit, you will focus on the next target and start the whole process over again. This is something that needs to be practiced of course, but it is very attainable and will result in better shot placement.

I've been shooting long enough now to know what works for me. I have no problem using a target focus and shoot very well that way. In a close quarters self defense situation your going to be focusing on the target because that's instinctive, you can't help it. In CQB training I see everyone shooting at the gun on paper targets and during simuntion training you get hit in the hands more than anything. This is because they're looking at the threat. Like I said, I train more for defensive shooting and I feel a target focus is best for that. Dropping back to the front sight takes more time. Yeah, it might only take fractions of a second but it only takes that long to get shot too.

[Singlestack]

That will be enough about defensive shooting.

[TheDarkOne]

I've been shooting long enough now to know what works for me. I have no problem using a target focus and shoot very well that way. In a close quarters self defense situation your going to be focusing on the target because that's instinctive, you can't help it. In CQB training I see everyone shooting at the gun on paper targets and during simuntion training you get hit in the hands more than anything. This is because they're looking at the threat. Like I said, I train more for defensive shooting and I feel a target focus is best for that. Dropping back to the front sight takes more time. Yeah, it might only take fractions of a second but it only takes that long to get shot too.

This type of focus is what Brian refers to as Type #2 focus in his book, and has its application when targets are close and/or low difficulty. Basically, you have target focus and just look through your sights which should be fuzzy. For longer shots, however, you will be much better served to drop back to your front sight; faster and more accurate. The way I see it, each target has it's own 'best' focus, and it is up to you to determine what that is for you. Just be aware that there are other types of focus you can experiment with that may net better results in different situations.

Edited February 8, 2010 by TheDarkOne

[FRANKIE D]

I don't know if this is a common issue but the amount of light behind me can make a big difference in my sight picture...ie single vs double vision. Most times i can see better if the area behind me is real dark. Anybody got a thought on this?

Frank

[TheDarkOne]

I have noticed the same thing, but can't really tell you the why's behind it.

The more I think, read, and shoot in regards to this topic, the more I realize there is really no 'right' way for every situation. It really just comes down to breaking the shot when you 'see' it. Whether that is pure target focus, pure front sight focus, or somewhere in between. Just be aware, and break the shot when you have enough information in your sight picture. One thing though, with rare exception, I always start with pure target focus; where it goes from there just depends on that situation.

[emjei]

This topic needs to be alive

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

[Mig01]

I am 56 and my close vision is not too good (I need +2.25 reading glasses). This means that if I shoot with only safety glasses on (non prescription), it is impossible for me to see a clear front sight. I always shoot with both eyes open. I see one target and two guns, but I have no problems aligning the sights on the target with my dominant eye (the right eye). When I shoot, bullseye or ipsc, I always see the target clearly, with a blurred front sight and a blurrier rear sight notch. Even though only the target is in clear focus, I have no problem centering the blurry front sight within the blurry rear sight notch.

I have tried shooting with prescription glasses, but it takes me more time to get a correct sight alignement as I have more difficulty acquiring an aiming point on the target. So, I gave that up.

When I shoot, my visual attention is on the front sight, even though it is out of focus.

[davidwebb]

Is there something wrong with me?

I am in my early 30s. near sighted prescription +120/+100.

I remember when I was a child, I was left eye dominant. remember squinting my right eye when playing slingshots.

As I was growing older, I was exposed to shooting and trained my right eye to be dominant. now I squint my left eye when looking at the sights.

whenever I try shooting from the draw with both eyes open, I find it hard to see the sights align swiftly. I couldn't focus on the front sight. what I see is a clear target and "holographic" blurry looking sights. I find it also hard to track my sights for a 2nd shot. When I draw and shoot with my left eye close, the target is blurry and the front sight is clear and it's easier for me to track the sights.Tried shooting with my left eye. feels so wierd. don't like the feeling of leaning my head to the right from a draw to get a sight picture.

I know it's ideal to shoot with both eyes open. anyone here knows how to correct this? I feel like my eyes are "confused" and slowing down my transitions TIA!

Edited October 24, 2013 by davidwebb

[TheDarkOne]

Is there something wrong with me?

I am in my early 30s. near sighted prescription +120/+100.

I remember when I was a child, I was left eye dominant. remember squinting my right eye when playing slingshots.

As I was growing older, I was exposed to shooting and trained my right eye to be dominant. now I squint my left eye when looking at the sights.

whenever I try shooting from the draw with both eyes open, I find it hard to see the sights align swiftly. I couldn't focus on the front sight. what I see is a clear target and "holographic" blurry looking sights. I find it also hard to track my sights for a 2nd shot. When I draw and shoot with my left eye close, the target is blurry and the front sight is clear and it's easier for me to track the sights.Tried shooting with my left eye. feels so wierd. don't like the feeling of leaning my head to the right from a draw to get a sight picture.

I know it's ideal to shoot with both eyes open. anyone here knows how to correct this? I feel like my eyes are "confused" and slowing down my transitions TIA!

That prescription doesn't make sense to me, would you mind elaborating? We may be using different numbers.

Right or left handed shooter?

[motosapiens]

I know it's ideal to shoot with both eyes open. anyone here knows how to correct this? I feel like my eyes are "confused" and slowing down my transitions TIA!

I have been an outdoor athlete my whole life, racing on skis, bicycles and motorcycles. These are all things where vision of your surroundings (with both eyes) is very important. I theorize that as a result of that activity, neither eye is particularly dominant. Some people seem to have a dominant eye that is so dominant that their brain tunes out the other eye when focusing on sights and targets and stuff. I don't have that. I have very clear vision from both eyes, so if I focus on the sights, i see 2 very clear targets. If I focus on targets, I see 2 sets of very clear sights. It takes me a little bit to sort out this visual clutter and make sure i'm lining up the right sights with the right targets. It also makes it difficult to really focus on the sights because it's much easier to figure out which sights are the right ones, so if I focus on the targets, I have less trouble than if I focus on the sights and have to choose which targets are the right ones.

After a year of shooting slowly, and reading brian enos' book, and researching alot here, and talking with a local master who simply closes his non-dominant eye when the buzzer goes off, and observing a GM at area 1 with a patch of scotch tape on his glasses, and noticing Brian's taped glasses on the cover of his book, I just put a 1/2 inch square piece of transparent scotch tape in the middle of my shooting glasses on the non-dominant eye.

I find it much easier to really see the sights now, and things line up MUCH more quickly and the improvement in my results in the last 4 months has been pretty dramatic.

Don't get hung up on worrying about whether it's 'better' or not to shoot with both eyes open. There seem to be big differences in the way people's vision is wired. Rest assured there are very very good shooters who either tape their glasses or close one eye.

Edited October 24, 2013 by motosapiens

[davidwebb]

Is there something wrong with me?

I am in my early 30s. near sighted prescription +120/+100.

I remember when I was a child, I was left eye dominant. remember squinting my right eye when playing slingshots.

As I was growing older, I was exposed to shooting and trained my right eye to be dominant. now I squint my left eye when looking at the sights.

whenever I try shooting from the draw with both eyes open, I find it hard to see the sights align swiftly. I couldn't focus on the front sight. what I see is a clear target and "holographic" blurry looking sights. I find it also hard to track my sights for a 2nd shot. When I draw and shoot with my left eye close, the target is blurry and the front sight is clear and it's easier for me to track the sights.Tried shooting with my left eye. feels so wierd. don't like the feeling of leaning my head to the right from a draw to get a sight picture.

I know it's ideal to shoot with both eyes open. anyone here knows how to correct this? I feel like my eyes are "confused" and slowing down my transitions TIA!

That prescription doesn't make sense to me, would you mind elaborating? We may be using different numbers.

Right or left handed shooter?

just checked the prescription. it says 150 left and 100 right eye with astigmatism.

right, handed shooter.

I normally don't wear prescription lenses when shooting. the target boards were naturally blurred and the sights were crystal clear because I am nearsighted. noticed that I have headaches every time I shoot without rx lenses so i decided to wear them recently

[davidwebb]

I know it's ideal to shoot with both eyes open. anyone here knows how to correct this? I feel like my eyes are "confused" and slowing down my transitions TIA!

I have been an outdoor athlete my whole life, racing on skis, bicycles and motorcycles. These are all things where vision of your surroundings (with both eyes) is very important. I theorize that as a result of that activity, neither eye is particularly dominant. Some people seem to have a dominant eye that is so dominant that their brain tunes out the other eye when focusing on sights and targets and stuff. I don't have that. I have very clear vision from both eyes, so if I focus on the sights, i see 2 very clear targets. If I focus on targets, I see 2 sets of very clear sights. It takes me a little bit to sort out this visual clutter and make sure i'm lining up the right sights with the right targets. It also makes it difficult to really focus on the sights because it's much easier to figure out which sights are the right ones, so if I focus on the targets, I have less trouble than if I focus on the sights and have to choose which targets are the right ones.

After a year of shooting slowly, and reading brian enos' book, and researching alot here, and talking with a local master who simply closes his non-dominant eye when the buzzer goes off, and observing a GM at area 1 with a patch of scotch tape on his glasses, and noticing Brian's taped glasses on the cover of his book, I just put a 1/2 inch square piece of transparent scotch tape in the middle of my shooting glasses on the non-dominant eye.

I find it much easier to really see the sights now, and things line up MUCH more quickly and the improvement in my results in the last 4 months has been pretty dramatic.

Don't get hung up on worrying about whether it's 'better' or not to shoot with both eyes open. There seem to be big differences in the way people's vision is wired. Rest assured there are very very good shooters who either tape their glasses or close one eye.

thanks! it's just peer pressure knowing that a lot of guys shoot with both eyes open. i tried practicing but just couldn't. I'll just stick to what works for me.

[TheDarkOne]

Is there something wrong with me?

I am in my early 30s. near sighted prescription +120/+100.

I remember when I was a child, I was left eye dominant. remember squinting my right eye when playing slingshots.

As I was growing older, I was exposed to shooting and trained my right eye to be dominant. now I squint my left eye when looking at the sights.

whenever I try shooting from the draw with both eyes open, I find it hard to see the sights align swiftly. I couldn't focus on the front sight. what I see is a clear target and "holographic" blurry looking sights. I find it also hard to track my sights for a 2nd shot. When I draw and shoot with my left eye close, the target is blurry and the front sight is clear and it's easier for me to track the sights.Tried shooting with my left eye. feels so wierd. don't like the feeling of leaning my head to the right from a draw to get a sight picture.

I know it's ideal to shoot with both eyes open. anyone here knows how to correct this? I feel like my eyes are "confused" and slowing down my transitions TIA!

That prescription doesn't make sense to me, would you mind elaborating? We may be using different numbers.

Right or left handed shooter?

just checked the prescription. it says 150 left and 100 right eye with astigmatism.

right, handed shooter.

I normally don't wear prescription lenses when shooting. the target boards were naturally blurred and the sights were crystal clear because I am nearsighted. noticed that I have headaches every time I shoot without rx lenses so i decided to wear them recently

I'm going to assume you mean 1.50 left and 1.00 right. And if you are nearsighted, shouldn't those be negative values? So -1.50 and -1.00? (not trying to badger you, just want to make sure I understand you situation the best I can before giving any 'expert' advice)

Edited October 24, 2013 by TheDarkOne

[TheDarkOne]

I know it's ideal to shoot with both eyes open. anyone here knows how to correct this? I feel like my eyes are "confused" and slowing down my transitions TIA!

I have been an outdoor athlete my whole life, racing on skis, bicycles and motorcycles. These are all things where vision of your surroundings (with both eyes) is very important. I theorize that as a result of that activity, neither eye is particularly dominant. Some people seem to have a dominant eye that is so dominant that their brain tunes out the other eye when focusing on sights and targets and stuff. I don't have that. I have very clear vision from both eyes, so if I focus on the sights, i see 2 very clear targets. If I focus on targets, I see 2 sets of very clear sights. It takes me a little bit to sort out this visual clutter and make sure i'm lining up the right sights with the right targets. It also makes it difficult to really focus on the sights because it's much easier to figure out which sights are the right ones, so if I focus on the targets, I have less trouble than if I focus on the sights and have to choose which targets are the right ones.

After a year of shooting slowly, and reading brian enos' book, and researching alot here, and talking with a local master who simply closes his non-dominant eye when the buzzer goes off, and observing a GM at area 1 with a patch of scotch tape on his glasses, and noticing Brian's taped glasses on the cover of his book, I just put a 1/2 inch square piece of transparent scotch tape in the middle of my shooting glasses on the non-dominant eye.

I find it much easier to really see the sights now, and things line up MUCH more quickly and the improvement in my results in the last 4 months has been pretty dramatic.

Don't get hung up on worrying about whether it's 'better' or not to shoot with both eyes open. There seem to be big differences in the way people's vision is wired. Rest assured there are very very good shooters who either tape their glasses or close one eye.

I agree. Everyone's vision and brains are different. The things you hear are usually tailored to the 'norm', and certainly don't apply to everyone in the same way. This is something everyone is going to have to figure out for themselves, and it will most likely involve trying a few different things. In the end it comes down to what makes you faster, not what is "right".

Btw, your ambidextrous vision sounds very similar to how mine "was". I say was because I have been able to train my eyes to see what they need to and forget the other ghost images, so now I can shoot two eyes open with little issue. It sounds like you have invested a lot of time on this though, so the tape may be the best solution for you, which is fine.

[davidwebb]

Is there something wrong with me?

I am in my early 30s. near sighted prescription +120/+100.

I remember when I was a child, I was left eye dominant. remember squinting my right eye when playing slingshots.

As I was growing older, I was exposed to shooting and trained my right eye to be dominant. now I squint my left eye when looking at the sights.

whenever I try shooting from the draw with both eyes open, I find it hard to see the sights align swiftly. I couldn't focus on the front sight. what I see is a clear target and "holographic" blurry looking sights. I find it also hard to track my sights for a 2nd shot. When I draw and shoot with my left eye close, the target is blurry and the front sight is clear and it's easier for me to track the sights.Tried shooting with my left eye. feels so wierd. don't like the feeling of leaning my head to the right from a draw to get a sight picture.

I know it's ideal to shoot with both eyes open. anyone here knows how to correct this? I feel like my eyes are "confused" and slowing down my transitions TIA!

That prescription doesn't make sense to me, would you mind elaborating? We may be using different numbers.

Right or left handed shooter?

just checked the prescription. it says 150 left and 100 right eye with astigmatism.

right, handed shooter.

I normally don't wear prescription lenses when shooting. the target boards were naturally blurred and the sights were crystal clear because I am nearsighted. noticed that I have headaches every time I shoot without rx lenses so i decided to wear them recently

I'm going to assume you mean 1.50 left and 1.00 right. And if you are nearsighted, shouldn't those be negative values? So -1.50 and -1.00?

most probably. haven't had my eyes checked for a year now. not really familiar with rx grades but without rx lenses, I couldnt make out the details of the registration plate of a car in front of me when driving.

You're right. it's what makes you faster... and besides, people won't see me closing my left eye unless theyr down range. lol

Edited October 24, 2013 by davidwebb

[lugnut]

If you have your head up so the front sight doesn't flip up out of your cone of vision, and your eyes open so you can actually see it, and decent enough technique that the front sight's not actually moving up that far, and coming right back to the same spot, it's actually no great trick to watch the front sight through its entire arc of motion.

Just to clarify what you mean by 'watch'. If I hold my finger out at arms length and move it up and down as fast as I can, I can watch it go up and down just fine, but my eyes muscles are not actually moving. Is that what you mean by watching it through its arc of motion, or are your eye muscles literally moving to follow it? If the later, I would say that is pretty remarkable, as my eyes don't seem to be able to move that fast.

You may not be able to understand the seeing Duane's describing by analyzing or thinking about it.

Tracking the Sight:

You're looking right at your front sight as the shot breaks. If you don't blink, you'll see it, in focus, lift up a bit out of the rear notch. It will actually travel quite a bit higher than you'll see it climb, but that doesn't matter. Then while you are still focused right where it was, you'll see it come right come back down into the notch. (You'll only see it coming down for about the same distance/amount of time that you saw it lift, but again that doesn't matter.)

The reason I said you might not be able to understand it by thinking about it - the actual amount you see the sight move is very small. It's not like looking at a wiggling finger.

I can't remember if this was in this topic or not. A great way to learn what it means to track the sights is to quickly shoot a string of about 6 shots, without caring where the bullets go. Just aim into the backstop, cast a gentle gaze around the front site, and start pulling the trigger. And it will help - have someone watch your from the side and be sure you're not blinking.

be

Brian,

This is great stuff. I can't understand how some people can see the sights clearly thru the entire cycle. If my eyes are really focused on the front sight... I'll see the sight jump, go away, then come back. I usually can tell the general direction it travels in- usually up and down. But I don't see the front sight the entire time!

Do you think shooting with one eye only limits your ability to track the sights better? I use one eye mostly. I've tried and tried with two eyes... I can shoot slow with two eyes... but at speed I get totally messed up and can't go from target to sights, target to sights well at all!