Alfie Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 I'm looking for some opinions. I'm pretty new to 3-gun shooting and I've been using my Armalite M15 rifle but I think it puts me in an equipment disadvantage in the Limited class. It's a basic M4 style rifle with no performance improvements. I also have an AR10T that is all tricked out from the factory but I don't ever get a chance to shoot the thing around here. I was thinking of upgrading to an M&P15 PC or maybe going to a JP rifle but I don't have the dough lieing around to do it. Should I unload the AR10 to pick up a better .223 rifle or should I slowly add parts to my M15 to make it a more competitive rifle? What would you do and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlmiller1 Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 What distances are you shooting at the matches you are attending? If they are generally close target stages, with minimal long range shooting, your M4 is NOT a big disadvantage. The trigger may be the only big disadvantage. That can be fixed. If you have a lot of long shots, then it might be. Be more specific about your gun. Iron sights? Compensator? Sharp edged rails that are hard to hold? Uncomfortable-poor fitting stock? IOW, why do you think your gun is a big disadvantage? However, having said all that, everyone always needs a new gun so if you are looking for a reason to buy a new gun , go for it! MLM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfie Posted May 23, 2009 Author Share Posted May 23, 2009 Typically we shoot less then 200 yards and it's more up close and personal targets. My rifle is set up as a battle rifle with a quad rail and an EOTech. I've looked into adding a VTAC hand guard, JP Trigger and a comp but I'm wondering if I'm just getting myself closer to not having the "Right" rifle. Would my 1:9 barrel be a disadvantage? What about the stock? I also think that I should have a 1-4x scope vs. the EOTech. I like the quick target acqisition on the halo sight but at the last big match I went to I gave up a ton of time on a long range stage just throwing lead down range at steel I couldn't see. I'm always for buying a new gun but I just don't know if I should do it slowly with parts or dump the rifle that hasn't seen daylight in 3 years???? I guess the question would be a whole lot easier if money grew on trees! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMAC Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Typically we shoot less then 200 yards and it's more up close and personal targets. My rifle is set up as a battle rifle with a quad rail and an EOTech. I've looked into adding a VTAC hand guard, JP Trigger and a comp but I'm wondering if I'm just getting myself closer to not having the "Right" rifle. Would my 1:9 barrel be a disadvantage? What about the stock? I also think that I should have a 1-4x scope vs. the EOTech. I like the quick target acqisition on the halo sight but at the last big match I went to I gave up a ton of time on a long range stage just throwing lead down range at steel I couldn't see. I'm always for buying a new gun but I just don't know if I should do it slowly with parts or dump the rifle that hasn't seen daylight in 3 years???? I guess the question would be a whole lot easier if money grew on trees! Your ideas about the VTAC, JP Trigger, and a comp should serve you well. Your barrel shouldn't be a disadvantage. If you can shoot 2" groups at 100 yards, it's probably plenty accurate for your 3 Gun targets at 200 yards. Just try some different ammo and see what it likes. The EOTech has a 1 MOA dot so you should be able to hit targets out to 200 yards without too much difficulty as long as you know your trajectory. Having said that, I have a JP CTR-02 with a Meopta K Dot on a LaRue mount. I don't think that I could measure a significant difference in my speed with the K-dot at close range compared to my EOTech. However, I really like the higher Mag for longer range shots, especially ones that are in the shade or hard to see. If you can shoot a JP first, it would help you make a more educated decision before you decided to sell your AR10 or drop some hard earned cash. Good luck in your decision and have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfie Posted May 23, 2009 Author Share Posted May 23, 2009 I think the smart thing to do is to modify my M15 with some better parts and take it from there. It doesn't look like the AR10 market on the web is going to fetch enough to set up a classy JP rifle anyway. I'm guessing when all said and done a full JP rifle will be upwards of $3k with an optic on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 JP-15 Precision Rifle in caliber .223/5.56x45 -------------------------------------------------------------- $1,999.00 Would not have to do any thing to it just add optic. Sell your AR and go with the JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlmiller1 Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 If you could not see the steel, then you may need to look for a different type of optic. One with some magnification. Getting rid of the hard to hold rail & so forth may make you a little more stable, also. Have you considered buying a different upper? There are some pretty good deals starting to show up out here. A new upper plus JP fire controls would go a long ways without a huge investment. Really, though for minimum cash outlay if you need magnification, just get a decent scope with true 1 power starting point & maybe the good trigger & a comp & you should be good to go. MLM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Would my 1:9 barrel be a disadvantage? Only if you want to shoot really heavy (77 grain) bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfie Posted May 23, 2009 Author Share Posted May 23, 2009 Would my 1:9 barrel be a disadvantage? Only if you want to shoot really heavy (77 grain) bullets. So for a 55 gr or so my 1:9 is good? I don't remember what the Greenhill formula says. I do know I'm not ready to jump into loading .223 yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyn Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Would my 1:9 barrel be a disadvantage? Only if you want to shoot really heavy (77 grain) bullets. So for a 55 gr or so my 1:9 is good? I don't remember what the Greenhill formula says. I do know I'm not ready to jump into loading .223 yet. Your 1 in 9 is just fine for 55 grainers. Your rifle is just fine for three gun. However, personally, I would unload the AR10 and get a JP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 If you're thinking about ordering from JP, be prepared for a wait. When I ordered my upper from them I got quoted 14 weeks. I'm now at 18 weeks and still no word. As this upper will build my first AR, it's an especially difficult wait, but I'm sure in the end it will be well worth it! M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfie Posted May 23, 2009 Author Share Posted May 23, 2009 I'm ok with the wait. Do they take a deposit or do you pay in full for the rifle ahead of time? I'm going back and forth and think that I might as well figure out what I want and get planning on getting it for next year. What's everyone's preference for optics? It looks like the Meopta (sp?) is the way to go but does anyone else have input? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken hebert Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Dude, take your M4, put on a Rolling Thunder/Bennie Cooley/Miculec brake, install a JP trigger, variable power optic like a Meopta/Trijicon/Burris, and if the rails bother you either cover them up or change the forarm out to a FF that suits you. Buy ammo by the case and shoot the hell outta it. Do this, figure out that this will suit your needs for now, and then if you think you need to go further then assess putting more funds into a specialty rifle like a JP. OR A FIREBIRD!!! btw, my Firebird kicked all kind of ass today at the local 3-gun, finishing just behind the HOA open shooter, me in tac division. woohoo!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonT Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 Dude, take your M4, put on a Rolling Thunder/Bennie Cooley/Miculec brake, install a JP trigger, variable power optic like a Meopta/Trijicon/Burris, and if the rails bother you either cover them up or change the forarm out to a FF that suits you. Buy ammo by the case and shoot the hell outta it. +1 I guess you'd get major with the AR10T? I think it would be too frickin heavy. My AR10T carbine is not that light. Last I heard you can send your AR10 to JP and they would do upgrades. That was awhile back. I'm running a M&P15T w/Miculec, JP trigger, and Eotech I like Ken's advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 Would my 1:9 barrel be a disadvantage? Only if you want to shoot really heavy (77 grain) bullets. Hmm-my 1:9 will do under an inch at 200 yards with 77 grain, but, every barrel is different so you really need to try a little of everything to see just what it does and doesn't like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfie Posted May 25, 2009 Author Share Posted May 25, 2009 Thanks for all the advice. So after picking the brain of some guys I shot with too, I came up with the idea of putting new parts in my current AR and do it cheap. I'm going to start with a good optic and then trigger and go from there. After that I need to find out what grain bullets this thing wants to eat! As for the AR10, as of now it will remain a safe queen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken hebert Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 Thanks for all the advice.So after picking the brain of some guys I shot with too, I came up with the idea of putting new parts in my current AR and do it cheap. I'm going to start with a good optic and then trigger and go from there. After that I need to find out what grain bullets this thing wants to eat! As for the AR10, as of now it will remain a safe queen. Hmmm... I seem to remember hearing this before.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doublehaul Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 I wouldn't get too cheap about it. You will be sorely dissapointed if you cut corners on optics, barrels and triggers. You get what you pay for. See if you can handle or even shoot a slicked up JP, Benny hill or some other custom job. You might be surprised at what you can get into them for. A buddy just threw one together for $1800. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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