Adam Larsen Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 OK - I am totally new to loading, but have sucessfully loaded several hundred rounds of .45 ACP. I am loading with a new Dillon 550, with Dillon dies. I have the .45 dies setup on a dedicated toolhead with a dedicated power measurer. I have the same setup for .223 rem. I attempted to load .223 last night but ran into some problems and cannot figure it out. I setup the dies to the "T" how the dillon video says to. The problem that I am having is the bullet is dropping into the casing during the seating stage (stage #3). This is happening in about 1 out of every 3-5 rounds. I am seating them to an overall length of 2.258, or at least attempting to! The bullets were bought through Georgia Arms and are .224 dia. 55gr FMJ - but not sure of original manuf. I have measured factory ammo that I pulled apart to see if there is any difference, but have not found any. The internal mouth and external mouth measurements are the same. The bullet dia is the same. I am at a loss and so inexperienced I am not sure what to look for. Thanks for any help on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mecury Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 I'm not familiar with Dillon dies, but I would say that either it is adjusted wrong or the die was not manufactured correctly. 1: What is the ID of your case mouth after sizing? 2: are some of the bullets undersized? 3: how many times has the brass been recycled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 This should be easy to catch.. Before you do anything to the brass.. does it fall through? After you size.. does it fall through? At what step does the bullet fall through? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 If the bullets mic OK, I'd guess your expander ball is too big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Larsen Posted April 27, 2009 Author Share Posted April 27, 2009 I'm not familiar with Dillon dies, but I would say that either it is adjusted wrong or the die was not manufactured correctly.1: What is the ID of your case mouth after sizing? 2: are some of the bullets undersized? 3: how many times has the brass been recycled? 1. Not sure of the I.D. of the mouth. I will have to measure one tonight. 2. All of the bullets are measuring .224 3. These are all once fired (by me) factory federal brass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Larsen Posted April 27, 2009 Author Share Posted April 27, 2009 This should be easy to catch..Before you do anything to the brass.. does it fall through? After you size.. does it fall through? At what step does the bullet fall through? Before I do anything the bullets WILL fall right through the mouth. After the brass is resized it will not only NOT fall through, but is so tight I dont think that I would be able to seat or press it into the brass by hand. The bullets are falling into the brass in stage 3 which is the seating stage. The ones that are not falling through are coming out at an overall length of 2.258, and 1 out of every 3-5 are falling in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 If they're not falling after sizing.. what step is expanding the case mouth, that the bullets do drop through? Is your powder drop, expanding the case mouth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingleStacker45 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Could the powder die be set too low and squishing the case down causing it to open up? Try the bullet fit before and after the powder station to see. Mule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mecury Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 (edited) This should be easy to catch..Before you do anything to the brass.. does it fall through? After you size.. does it fall through? At what step does the bullet fall through? Before I do anything the bullets WILL fall right through the mouth. After the brass is resized it will not only NOT fall through, but is so tight I dont think that I would be able to seat or press it into the brass by hand. The bullets are falling into the brass in stage 3 which is the seating stage. The ones that are not falling through are coming out at an overall length of 2.258, and 1 out of every 3-5 are falling in. From what you are stating, I would have to say it is operator error or bad brass. I have seen some brass that acts like Stretch Armstrong, which basically need to be annealed to get the molecules back in proper order. If all your brass is of the same manufacture and "once fired" as you stated it would probably have to be that you are not being "consistent" in your stroke. Consistency is key no matter what type of press you use, but it is exaggerated on a progressive press. When you get to stage 3 or 4(if crimping) the force required to complete the operation will be a great deal more than if you were using a single stage press. Also, are you running all stages at once on the press? Reason for asking is that "bottleneck" rifle cases need to checked/trimmed after sizing. Not doing this "could" potentially cause a dangerous situation when shooting. Edited April 27, 2009 by mecury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Larsen Posted April 28, 2009 Author Share Posted April 28, 2009 I'm not familiar with Dillon dies, but I would say that either it is adjusted wrong or the die was not manufactured correctly.1: What is the ID of your case mouth after sizing? 2: are some of the bullets undersized? 3: how many times has the brass been recycled? I took a sampling of 5 cases and here are the results Before sizing the OD mouth is 0.259, ID mouth is 0.230 After sizing the OD mouth is 0.248, ID mouth is 0.222, and overall length is 1.760 After powder the ID mouth is still 0.222 I am thinking that maybe 0.222 is not tight enough? I also strongly agree that it is most likely opperator error and inexperience. I truely appreciate all your help and advise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anachronism Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Okay, here's one possibility that's really freaky. A friend was loading 300 Win Mag one day with Remington 180 gr bullets & had a similar problem. If he seated the bullet very deep, they'd drop into the case. With a 300 Win Mag all bullets seat deeply, due to it's short neck. It drove him nuts, he measured the bullet base & it was okay, he used plug gauges in the cases, and THEY were okay. But still the bullets dropped into the case. After a while, it finally hit him, the bullets weren't straight at the shank, the base was actually larger than the top part of the shank. So the bullets would encounter resistance until the bullet base cleared the case neck. Then, the bullet would drop into the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mecury Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 I took a sampling of 5 cases and here are the resultsBefore sizing the OD mouth is 0.259, ID mouth is 0.230 After sizing the OD mouth is 0.248, ID mouth is 0.222, and overall length is 1.760 After powder the ID mouth is still 0.222 I am thinking that maybe 0.222 is not tight enough? I also strongly agree that it is most likely opperator error and inexperience. I truely appreciate all your help and advise. .222 is fine. Mine average the same and I experience no problems. (.221 nice soft brass---.223 time to anneal, which is after abt. 3-4 loadings) If I were you I would consider trimming the brass as 1.760 is max and leaves little to no room for error. I personally trim to 1.750 So in conclusion it is either You, the Brass or gremlin ninja's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiserb Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 OK - I am totally new to loading, but have sucessfully loaded several hundred rounds of .45 ACP. I am loading with a new Dillon 550, with Dillon dies. I have the .45 dies setup on a dedicated toolhead with a dedicated power measurer. I have the same setup for .223 rem. I attempted to load .223 last night but ran into some problems and cannot figure it out. I setup the dies to the "T" how the dillon video says to. The problem that I am having is the bullet is dropping into the casing during the seating stage (stage #3). This is happening in about 1 out of every 3-5 rounds. I am seating them to an overall length of 2.258, or at least attempting to! The bullets were bought through Georgia Arms and are .224 dia. 55gr FMJ - but not sure of original manuf. I have measured factory ammo that I pulled apart to see if there is any difference, but have not found any. The internal mouth and external mouth measurements are the same. The bullet dia is the same. I am at a loss and so inexperienced I am not sure what to look for. Thanks for any help on this. Check the decap pin--There is a case mouth expander on the Dillon decap pin. I bet it is bent a little or cracked and thus expanding the mouth too much at the decap stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Another forum member was having issues with some of his .223 ammo. It turned out the spindle for the expander in his Dillon sizer was bent. Dillon sent him a new one, no more problems. You may also want to check for split necks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Larsen Posted April 28, 2009 Author Share Posted April 28, 2009 Thank you all for your input on this. Update- with the input on a possible bent decap pin, I took station 1 die out, took it apart and everything seemed to look good. I then reset that die in station 1, moved to station 2 and did the same, then 3, then 4. After resetting the entire press up, I ran 1 casing through and took measurements and everything measured the same, and I had no problem with the bullet falling in, so I did another, then another and before you know it, I was able to produce 25 perfect rounds with no problems. It appears that the problem is fixed but will know better when I get a little more time to load more, but for now I feel confident that I either fixed the problem with the die/press or fixed the problem with myself and my consistency. Either way, I feel that the problem is now gone, and I appreciate everybody's time and input. This is a great group of folks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiserb Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Thank you all for your input on this. Update- with the input on a possible bent decap pin, I took station 1 die out, took it apart and everything seemed to look good. I then reset that die in station 1, moved to station 2 and did the same, then 3, then 4. After resetting the entire press up, I ran 1 casing through and took measurements and everything measured the same, and I had no problem with the bullet falling in, so I did another, then another and before you know it, I was able to produce 25 perfect rounds with no problems. It appears that the problem is fixed but will know better when I get a little more time to load more, but for now I feel confident that I either fixed the problem with the die/press or fixed the problem with myself and my consistency. Either way, I feel that the problem is now gone, and I appreciate everybody's time and input. This is a great group of folks! The decap sleeve may have gotton cadi-wampus and taking it apart and putting it together fixed the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Larsen Posted April 29, 2009 Author Share Posted April 29, 2009 The decap sleeve may have gotton cadi-wampus and taking it apart and putting it together fixed the issue. Whatever it was - I am just glad to be past it, although I do wish I knew what was causing it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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