exoninja Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 I read it on a website some time ago, where the "El Presidente" stage is used for classifying shooters (Class D, Class C, etc...). I can't remember the website now, but it did mention something about classifying shooters by their time (clean run only). E.g. 15seconds and you're a Class D shooter or something. Can someone let me know how are standard division shooters classified? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kindlyoldcoach Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 I can't remember the website now... Was it this site? The El Presidente bit is about 2/3 the way down the page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogmaDog Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 I shot El Presidente (CM 99-11) in about 10 seconds, and scored 45.xx% on it, in L-10 division, though I was 3 to 5 points down. DD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 DD Look at the four page topic under classifiers, 99-11, to get the low down on this one. It goes way back, before there were classifications Nationally,used to be a par time event, 10 sec. Then the classification system went into effect and here we are today. Your 10 sec time is a good starting place. Look at the methods used to lower their times by the really good shooters like Steve Anderson, Ron Ankeny, Paul W, and a lot of others. One good place to start to lower your time is to practice your turn/draw. also time your reload. At the M level, your reload should be under 1 sec. Just keep shooting and practicing and soon you will be able to include your name with those who can do it, mucho pronto... We are all working to get "there". I have taken over half a second off my time from a month ago, and hope to go even lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Moore Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 tightloop; can you point me to these methods you're talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 L40 I don't know if I can point you to all of them, but read the 99-11 thread in the Classifiers topic. It has some great tips by Steve Anderson, Paul Whitacre, Ron Ankeny and others. IE, snapping your head to facilitate your turn, how to stand in the box, whether to shoot it r/l or L/R...good stuff. If you are shooting L10 or Limited, you cannot expect to do it in under 4 sec like some of the Open GMs, but you can shoot it in the low 5's, maybe in the hi4's. This classifier because it is easy to set up and has been around since the Great Flood, has an absurdly high HHF, something around 14 or so, and takes a great deal of practice to do the 3 things it takes to get this done rapidly. You have to be fast turning/drawing and getting a flash sight picture on the first target. You have to be able to shoot accelerated pairs, almost faster than you thought possible, and you have to be able to really snap a reload, probably about .8 or .9. If you can do those things AND drop only 2 or so points, you are looking at a Mid 5 second run with an M or GM HHF. Hope this helps Also look at MattB's site, he has some really good tips on this kind of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 actually, much to my own surprise, the high HF currently on file at USPSA for Limited is not absurdly high at all (10.5 or so), and it is not all that difficult to make 90+% on this classifier (I have a 98% on file, I think...). --Detlef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 actually, much to my own surprise, the high HF currently on file at USPSA for Limited is not absurdly high at all (10.5 or so), and it is not all that difficult to make 90+% on this classifier (I have a 98% on file, I think...). Of course, you have an advantage over mere mortal shooters . . . you got to shoot with Darrel and the Coal Creek Boys years ago! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 All right Mistah Rhino, that takes some splainin'. Who is Darrel and who are the Coal Creek Boys and whar do they hale from. Detlef lives in Houston, and I don't know Darrel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Darrel is a very talented gunsmith (and shooter... he won B-Open in the 3-gun nationals and placed in the top 10 at the Single Stack Classic back when he had time to shoot) who was the honcho at the former Coal Creek Gun Club in Veedersburg, IN. The Coal Creek Boys would be the members of the Coal Creek GC. Detlef used to live in Illinois (I think he was at UIUC ... univ. of Illinois Champaigne-Urbana) and he shot at Coal Creek a few times. It was before I started shooting, though . . . probably 1994-ish. The club is defunct since we lost our range years ago, but it was the most fun, friendliest place to shoot in America . . . because of the people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougBarnes101 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Rhino, You said a mouthful, man. Shooting with Darrel and Tony and the rest of the guys was great. They made everybody feel right at home. It's to bad the town of Veedersburg felt like the needed to expand their sewage plant and took over the range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Amen! And we occasionally shot an El Prez or too! (note how I get back on topic!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 yep, Veedersburg was just across the IL state line, and a very fun place to shoot. I still have my memorabilia from back then (1992; wow, THAT LONG, HUH???). This is the area and time when I first started to shoot IPSC, in fact handguns altogether... I believe USPSA *reset* the El Prez HFs when they went to the current classifier book, and when El Prez's starting foot position changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogmaDog Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Tightloop, Thanks for the encouraging words. I shot el-prez a while ago and I've been steadily improving since then. I think I was in D class at the time, and it helped me move up to C class, and now I'm getting toward B class, so the progress is happening. I could always use more dry fire practice. Right now I mostly do exercises from The Book (closed eyes to master index), with some drawing and reloading. My reloads are sucking, and I blame my tight leather Wilson mag pouches. I have to pull really hard to get the mags free. Course I actually don't know how long they take. Perhaps I'll set up el prez next time I get some live practice, and see where I am today. DD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Glad to hear you are making progress. It was nothing I said, you just got down on yourself for a day or so. Wait till you tangle with Mr. Tough Love, Steve Anderson; man, he'll kick your butt for doubting yourself like nobody. Made me really re-evaluate what I thought I might be capable of. You stick to your schedule and before long you'll be knocking back those low 5 second drills with very few points down. You know what to do and how to do it; now just apply what you know... Kind of gets to be fun after while, when you have a personal best at the range, you can compare what you just did with what someone else just did...pretty cool. Take a look at what MerlinD did with his Production rig if you want to see a good run or two. Claims to be a D shooter, but posted some really smokin A class runs.. I'm trying to improve my skill set on that one also. Remember me when you get the M card... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 If it matters - from someone who sat down and figured it out - the HHF for the El Prez in Limited/Limited-10 is 10.8012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Speaking of the foot position change . . . Detlef, were you referring to having the toes touching the uprange side of the box? Did USPSA do that to make sure everyone started from essentially the same place? I know that in some other courses of fire, you see a lot of weird "stances," some of which have the lower body facing almost downrange! Was the original course of fire measured in meters or yards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 ARhino 10 yards, and yes on the foot position. Par time was 10 sec on the first El Prez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norwegian Viking Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Time is measured from the start signal to the last shot fired. D Class 15 seconds* C Class 11.25 seconds B Class 7.5 seconds A Class 6.0 seconds Master Class 5.3 seconds Grandmaster 4.75 seconds If this is correct then i'm a B Class shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmshtr Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 It's funny that there are no points in that equation. I suspect that we would have a lot of GM's if we used this system! It's not-so-funny that the best El Prez I've done lately has been with my duty gun, belt, and factory ammo while doing a demo for a recruit class a few months ago. I don't think I've ever shot one that counted in Limited! Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmshtr Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Oh well, I checked that page, and those were times for clean runs. My mistake....now I'm really depressed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 My last one at a match was 4.79, down 1 I think so that's about right. (open GM) I was ultra relaxed and just shot it smooth. Best ever in practice was 3.72 down 6 or so...that was after 5 or 6 runs and just smoked it old school. THE KEY is the turn. Do a search on el pres, we've discussed it to death... SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 I think I ran the numbers one time on the HF that Duane posted (seems accurate btw).... 5.55 all A's is 100% something around 5.0 down 6 (A/C) makes 100% Anyone concur?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 That's right dirtypool. 10 erik warren 208 A Limited 10 58 0 5.77 10.0520 51.6489 86.08% 7/20/02 99-11 USPSA PRESIDENT Y 93.0637 8/06/02 Interesting that at the 2002 Factory Gun, everybody and his uncle shot it sub-6, but only two guys shot it sub-5. Just a little "big match pressure" "60 points to lose" reality check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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