What Are You Looking At?

[Rich4]

I just know this has never been asked before (ahem), so feel free to redirect me if all this is answered elsewhere.

Quick background: I've been watching Burkett's DVD's and practicing my draw indoors, dry-firing. One thing I noticed is that I'm pretty close to being dead-on on the target I pick out, e.g. the light-switch on the other side of the room, with both eyes open (I've never shot with both eyes open, so we'll see if I can keep them open when firing). I check my sight picture by not moving my point of aim or my head (or just slightly moving my head) closing my left eye and sighting down the firearm. Am I on the right track?

Exactly what are you looking at when the shot goes off? The front site, the target, a combination of both? Where are your eyes focusing? Is it some millisecond flash between the target and sites? Is it just something you finally "get" and isn't really explainable?

When shooting with both eyes open do you acquire a second nature of subconsciously only using "information" from your dominant eye, or is it more of a conscious effort?

[Flexmoney]

Starting out...you want your focus on the front sight.

As you move up the experience ladder, you still want your focus on the front sight.

One of the best dryfire drills is to pick a couple of targets at various distance...draw to target 1, bring the front sight into razor sharp focus...then snap your eyes to target 2...bring the front sight into razor sharp focus...repeat.

[John Dunn]

Brian's book has a section where he about 5 focus types:

1. Pure index

2. Target focus

3. Focus transitioins from target to sights

4. Sight focus through front sight lift

5. Sight focus through follow through

What you actually choose depends on the target size and range. This afternoon I was practicing a 5 target array ay 5 yds strong hand only and weak hand only and found my hits were just as good and my times better with a type 2 focus than with a 3. Back at 15 I need at least a 3 to keep from throwing deltas. As Ron Avery says, see what you need to see to make the shot.

If you haven't read Brian's book, you're missing out.

[bountyhunter]

In my not so valued opinion, I believe all new shooters should be taught as their fundamental sighting method to keep both eyes open and locked on the target and the gun is sighted through the fuzzy sight picture of the dominant eye (this is sometimes referred to as "indirect sighting"). You still see the sights, they are fuzzy. As you said, you can close the left eye and focus back in on the sights to verify sight alignment, then release focus back to the target with both eyes open. Once that is mastered, then the standard "one eyed" sight focus methods can be learned.

The reason I prefer this sequence of learning is that in combat you will always revert to tour baseline training. If that is one-eye closed, look at the front sight, you will probably die in a gun fight. Try it yourself. Set up some objects outdoors as if they were threat targets and raise your gun. Close the left eye and look at the front sight and see how much of the world you can still see. then open both eyes and look out and see what you were missing. FWIW, aligning a gun through "unfocused" (fuzzy) sights can be done very accurately because the light bars on either side of the front blade are still visible and the tops of the blade/sights are still easily discerned. Very little sighting accuracy is lost in exchange for huge increase in the visual field.

As for target shooting, try everything and use whatever method gives you the best scores.

[TBF]

Rich,

My take on the eye dominance thing is it is highly individual in nature.

Search for " eye dominance " or " dominant eye " and you will get a very wide variety of opinions, all of them valid for the owner of the eyes described in the post.

Bountyhunter,

Good thing none of my targets shoot back. I cannot use both eyes open technique at all, I have no dominant eye. I have had some luck with blacking out a lens, but that's not tactical either. Guess I'd better just stay out of gunfights. ( that's my preference anyway )

Travis F.

[rhino]

The reason I prefer this sequence of learning is that in combat you will always revert to tour baseline training. If that is one-eye closed, look at the front sight, you will probably die in a gun fight.

Are you absolutely sure you wanted to say that?

Like, 100% sure, and you didn't make a mistake or forget to post a smiley or something?

[rhino]

Good thing none of my targets shoot back. I cannot use both eyes open technique at all, I have no dominant eye. I have had some luck with blacking out a lens, but that's not tactical either. Guess I'd better just stay out of gunfights. ( that's my preference anyway )

Well, we already knew that "IPSC will get your killed," so it doesn't matter on the eye thing since we're all dead men and women anyway. It's just a matter of time!

[bountyhunter]

The reason I prefer this sequence of learning is that in combat you will always revert to tour baseline training.  If that is one-eye closed, look at the front sight, you will probably die in a gun fight.

Are you absolutely sure you wanted to say that?

Like, 100% sure, and you didn't make a mistake or forget to post a smiley or something?

Well, I didn't say you would 100% surely die with one eye closed, but you 100% surely will be at one hell of a disadvantage if your left eye is closed and your only open eye is focused on the front sight compared to seeing the whole picture. Bottom line is this: on my defense weapons, the front sight (or dot) is bright orange. The rears are white. With both my eyes locked square on target, when I raise the gun it comes straight up into line of sight of the dominant eye. I see right "through" the gun sights because it is a ghost image online with the target (try it with both eyes on target and see what I mean). I still align the sights. When the orange fuzzy dot is between the white fuzzy dots, the POI will be within 2" of where I am looking at any range out to 15 yards. Good enough for me.

BTW, I didn't originate this. Some who trian LE's and defensive shooters say the same thing. I remember the data was that in a life-death scenario, the "threat" was an overwhelming attention lock so the person would want to focus on that, but then need to sweep back to find the gun... in other words, a case of momentary brain lock ensues. Basically, it presents a situation that is never trained for and introduces a lag time. IMO, in a gunfight, you want to see everything, not just your front sight... and you want the automatic actions to maximize your advantage. YMMV. I may be in a minority on that, maybe not.

I am absolutely convinced that new shooters can easily be taught indirect sighting through the dominat eye with both eyes on target focus. It isn't any harder than the one-eye squint, if you practice it. I use the one-eye squint in bullseye with iron sights. I use two eyes target focus for open guns and defensive shooting. I stay practiced on both, but always feel like I'm missing something with one eye closed.

[bountyhunter]

Good thing none of my targets shoot back. I cannot use both eyes open technique at all, I have no dominant eye. I have had some luck with blacking out a lens, but that's not tactical either. Guess I'd better just stay out of gunfights. ( that's my preference anyway )

Well, we already knew that "IPSC will get your killed," so it doesn't matter on the eye thing since we're all dead men and women anyway. It's just a matter of time!

I wasn't aware IPSC had a gunfight in the course of fire. maybe that's only when you get to grandmaster class.

[Singlestack]

Thats enough of that stuff Fellows.

Back to the subject.

Keep it competition related.

[ErikW]

bountyhunter, this may surprise you, but nobody goes running around a 28 round course of fire with his eye closed and his dominant eye focused on the front the whole time. For me, it is probably less than a tenth of a second per shot I'm making; sometimes not at all.

Vision is the most dynamic part of the sport. It's constantly shifting, hundredths or tenths of a second at a time. Target, sights, front sight, recoil, close target, fuzzy sights, door handle, etc.

Somewhere out there's a thread in which I opined I didn't shift focus on the plate rack, just kept it on the front sight from plate to plate. benos said that wasn't really what was happening, that I had to be shifting focus to the next plate briefly before focusing back on the front sight. I went out and practiced on the rack with more awareness, and I noticed he was right.

[bountyhunter]

No, it doesn't surprise me but it is not on point of the thread. A newbie asked a specific question:

"One thing I noticed is that I'm pretty close to being dead-on on the target I pick out, e.g. the light-switch on the other side of the room, with both eyes open (I've never shot with both eyes open, so we'll see if I can keep them open when firing). I check my sight picture by not moving my point of aim or my head (or just slightly moving my head) closing my left eye and sighting down the firearm. Am I on the right track?"

And my answer was, that in my "not so valued opinion", he was on the right track and using a technique which has a lot of advantages over the one-eyed squint method mantrad to all new shooters by instructors. In fact, it seemed that he had simply discovered the same thing I did.

Nowhere did I say that two-eye target focus was the ONLY way to shoot, just that I dasgaree with those who claim that the one-eyed squint at the front sight is the only way to shoot. I also state that IMO, a newbie should master two-eyed target focus first because I am of the opinion that the #1 importance of mastering firearms skills is to be able to defend one's self and family. I am of the opinion that indirect sighting with eyes on target is the most feasible way to deal with this, and (I have read) that LE's are taught to keep eyes on target so some instructors must be of similar mindset.

Obviously in competitive shooting, focus is a constantly moving point of attention.

My answer to the newbie was just this: Yes, you are on the right track. Yes, other people do the same thing. Yes, there are dvantages to mastering that skill first. I neglected to answer his other question:

"When shooting with both eyes open do you acquire a second nature of subconsciously only using "information" from your dominant eye, or is it more of a conscious effort?"

No conscious effort required. Your brain easily processes the "transparent" image of the gun you see through the dominat eye on line with the target, while the target is fully seen through the non-dom eye.

[TBF]

If you can use two eyes do it.

And do your best to stay out of gunfights. Regardless of number of eyes used.

Travis F.