PistolPete Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 As everyone knows primers are difficult to get a hold of so I'm trying to stock up on them. I was able to pick up 4000 Federal Small rifle Primers as I always use Winchester Small rifle primers. I know Federal typically uses a softer cup than most other brands but I was curious if I should not use these for major loads. I'm running at 1340 FPS and will only use the Federal primers in my practice ammo. Anyone have any primer flow issues or anything when using Federal Primers? I want to be safe but I want to shoot and practice as well. Thanks, Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caspian_45 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) double tap....stupid slow azz internet conection Edited March 19, 2009 by Caspian_45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caspian_45 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I run the 205's for years when I shot open. You'll be fine. Chrono to make sure the velocity is were you want it. They actually used to be labeled small pistol magnum/small rifle primers right on the box. Those were the Fed 200's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Abrahams Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Federal small rifle are the only primers i use in my 38 supercomp major loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I prefer WSR for 38SC, but have used thousands of Federal SR with the identical load with no problems. Current load is a 115gr MG JHP running over 1500fps for 171-173PF and no primer flow or cratering at all. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbright Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I have used Federal small rifle and small pistol with no pressure signs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharonAnne9x23 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I have used WSR exclusively for my 9x23 major loads. Federal Small Rifle primers should work fine for any pistol load. They are made for 50,000psi rifle ammunition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolPete Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 Great, thanks for the input. I figured they would be fine being they're designed for a rifle load but I just wanted to see what others have experienced. Running such high pressure major loads I just want to be safe. Hopefully primers will be more readily avail. shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) I have only been testing them for 20 years somewhere between 500K-million rds The first 12 or so years were at 175PF that was 1550 fps. I think you are ok. Edited March 19, 2009 by BSeevers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I'm in the boat of having used WSR for my whole Open career - but I would sub in Fed. SR primers at any point (obviously chrono'ing to verify velocity). In fact, running the load I'm running, I could probably run Fed. SP primers without an issue, even... The Federal primers are a little softer than Winchester - so should have better ignition properties, but may appear to show pressure signs you didn't see w/ the Winchester equivalent. I wouldn't sweat it too much if the WSR loads looked pristine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphar Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 I have only been testing them for 20 years somewhere between 500K-million rds The first 12 or so years were at 175PF that was 1550 fps. I think you are ok. Did you work your load up using SRP? If so, how can you tell if the pressure is too high? How can you tell if it's safe to run a 115gr at 1550fps in your (rammped barreled) gun? I would like to load at major loads (such as you're using) but I'm not sure how safe such loads are. I started using Federal SRP, but switched to CCI SPP, so I can see signs of pressure. Are typical loadings 1550fps for 115gr and 1450 for 124gr? Most of my manuals stick to the .38 Super +P loadings and do not touch Major loads and do not have load data for 9 super comp, 38 super comp, and .38 TJ, all of which I am working with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 Man, I hate to break it to you, but they won't work. In fact just to keep you safe, send them to me and I will properly use, uh, I mean destroy them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 I have only been testing them for 20 years somewhere between 500K-million rds The first 12 or so years were at 175PF that was 1550 fps. I think you are ok. Did you work your load up using SRP? If so, how can you tell if the pressure is too high? How can you tell if it's safe to run a 115gr at 1550fps in your (rammped barreled) gun? I would like to load at major loads (such as you're using) but I'm not sure how safe such loads are. I started using Federal SRP, but switched to CCI SPP, so I can see signs of pressure. Are typical loadings 1550fps for 115gr and 1450 for 124gr? Most of my manuals stick to the .38 Super +P loadings and do not touch Major loads and do not have load data for 9 super comp, 38 super comp, and .38 TJ, all of which I am working with. There really is no way to gauge pressure by looking at primers. They can look totally fine, but still be way over the pressure limits. My 38SC load is a 115gr JHP going 1515 average, but I've run them over 1600fps in testing. It's very likely that many of the loads people are using to make major are over the limits, but I'd be willing to bet that more of them are .40S&W loads with heavy bullets and fast powders. Still, with modern barrels and modern powders it's pretty well proven that you can run many tens of thousands of rounds that are over SAAMI pressure limits without breaking anything. Also, it's been proven that a lot of the major loads in Super are within SAAMI specs (this was true even at the old, higher power factor). The reality is we just don't know if we're within limits with a lot of what we're using.....but I haven't seen too many guns blown up over the years. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 I have only been testing them for 20 years somewhere between 500K-million rds The first 12 or so years were at 175PF that was 1550 fps. I think you are ok. Did you work your load up using SRP? If so, how can you tell if the pressure is too high? How can you tell if it's safe to run a 115gr at 1550fps in your (rammped barreled) gun? I would like to load at major loads (such as you're using) but I'm not sure how safe such loads are. I started using Federal SRP, but switched to CCI SPP, so I can see signs of pressure. Are typical loadings 1550fps for 115gr and 1450 for 124gr? Most of my manuals stick to the .38 Super +P loadings and do not touch Major loads and do not have load data for 9 super comp, 38 super comp, and .38 TJ, all of which I am working with. Do you shoot USPSA? Actually in those early days we pioneered using SR. We had flowback problems so switching to SR and oversized firing pins were "invented" to cure misfires caused by a blocked FP hole. Where do you get your data that your "not sure how safe they are"? Uh there are thousands, no more like tens and tens of thousands shooters shooting these loads. I don't touch my powder measure. Ever. Not sure why people would except when working up a load. Yes I chrono new lots. I take my chrono to the practice range all the time just to check things out. My loads have been chronoed all over the country. And no 1550 fps was in the 80's and 90's when the PF was 175. Its 165 now so I shoot a 115 gr going 1460 fps. I would welcome a return to 175 PF cause it returns more of the pistolsmith skills to the mix. And it takes a little more skill to shoot a 175 PF. Not sure why we lowered it. Manuals really don't have anything to offer USPSA/IPSC shooters. We have always shot over SAMMI. Most of the powders we use aren't even known by a lot of "experts". Go into just about any gun store/show and ask for VV 3n38/3N37. After you get the blank stare...... Midway just started carrying VV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 We have always shot over SAMMI. I know that way back when they pressure tested some of the earliest Super loads that made major and they were within SAMMI limits. I know there have been some similar tests since them that were within limits (not all, of course) as well. I'm sure some combinations are well over, but not all...specifically the slower powders like 4756, 3N38 and N105 etc. Even Cor-Bon's factory +P will make Major in some guns, so we may not be quite as far out there as we think. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphar Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Do you shoot USPSA? No, although it may be something I'd like to get involved in, in the future. Manuals really don't have anything to offer USPSA/IPSC shooters. We have always shot over SAMMI. Most of the powders we use aren't even known by a lot of "experts". There seems to be more information on .38 Super load development in USPSA/IPSC forums than in the reloading manuals I have. All the loads in my manuals seem to be moderate at best. After lurking around a bit, I can get an idea of what powders to use and work up loads using them. I guess what I'm really after is .357 magnum performance in an autoloader, without having to use 357 sig. Go into just about any gun store/show and ask for VV 3n38/3N37. After you get the blank stare...... Sounds about right, haven't seen it anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 I guess what I'm really after is .357 magnum performance in an autoloader, without having to use 357 sig. Cor-bon comes pretty close. This load is only 75fps slower than their .357Mag load that uses a bullet 5gr lighter: https://dakotaammo.net/shop/product_info.ph...;products_id=46 With slower powders you should be able to get that level of performance without too much trouble. I'm running 115gr JHPs over 100fps faster than the Cor-bon 115gr load with zero pressure signs and the cases are lasting a long time (not getting loose primer pockets etc). The Jeff Maas site is a bit dated, but I've found the data is still pretty helpful: http://www.k8nd.com/documents/hl38sup.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 We have always shot over SAMMI. I know that way back when they pressure tested some of the earliest Super loads that made major and they were within SAMMI limits. I know there have been some similar tests since them that were within limits (not all, of course) as well. I'm sure some combinations are well over, but not all...specifically the slower powders like 4756, 3N38 and N105 etc. Even Cor-Bon's factory +P will make Major in some guns, so we may not be quite as far out there as we think. R, I like to see those test results. I agree that you can't say all with anything. Current SAMMI lists 38Super+P at 36,500, 40S&W at 35,000, 9mm+P at 38,500. These are max allowed and are for the worst gun and ammo combo to be safe. We shoot better chambers, barrels, brass, primers, and gun fit. Stand next a Open gun shooting major, and a stock gun(I know no comp does make a big difference) and which one is generating more PSI? I have not data since my barrel CUP and PSI device was lost in the move but I know a Super is real nasty to RO. Nothing like it was at 175PF. Just like we developed and did the R&D things like reddots we did the same for major loads. The mfgs were in there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmaass Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 (edited) I guess what I'm really after is .357 magnum performance in an autoloader, without having to use 357 sig. The Jeff Maas site is a bit dated, but I've found the data is still pretty helpful: http://www.k8nd.com/documents/hl38sup.pdf Jeff Maass himself is pretty dated! ;-) Edited April 20, 2009 by jmaass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 I guess what I'm really after is .357 magnum performance in an autoloader, without having to use 357 sig. The Jeff Maas site is a bit dated, but I've found the data is still pretty helpful: http://www.k8nd.com/documents/hl38sup.pdf Jeff Maass himself is pretty outdated! ;-) ....you said it, not me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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