JFD Posted August 1, 2002 Share Posted August 1, 2002 I was trying to be good yesterday at the range and tried to shoot weak handed. This is my major weakness of weaknesses, based on classifier results. I could not hit squat with my left hand! The bullets were impacting off the target at 17 yards or hitting the edge at best. The "A" zone was untouched. I tried various techniques without success. I didn't feel anything terribly obvious, but maybe shooting to the right is a symptom of something obvious to you folks. I have not been doing enough weak hand dry firing, and no weak hand backyard air pistol practice, so I'll correct that immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted August 1, 2002 Author Share Posted August 1, 2002 OK, I just ripped off a few groups with my air pistol at 7 and 17 yards with no apparent problem. This is even when dealing with a double action sort of trigger. Of course there's no recoil and the gun is much lighter (could be the key). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 1, 2002 Share Posted August 1, 2002 flinch...not calling the shot...milking the grip Try the coin of the front sight trick while dry-firing. http://www.brianenos.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard...=5&topic=56 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted August 1, 2002 Share Posted August 1, 2002 Dry fire, dry fire, dry fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Benzick Posted August 1, 2002 Share Posted August 1, 2002 Lift the little finger and ring finger of your weak hand off the grip so it barely touches. Then press the trigger without tensing the rest of the hand. If you follow through so you see the sight lift off the target, you will get your hits. When you shoot at speed, your lower grip will have more tension. This trick just isolates the trigger finger for practice. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Merricks Posted August 1, 2002 Share Posted August 1, 2002 I'm with ya JFD. I totally suck week hand. I do know that I need to improve my strengh in my week hand. I guess thats why I call it week hand and not left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted August 1, 2002 Share Posted August 1, 2002 Not to be a smartass... But you're basically saying that you're not good at something that you never do!?!?! I had the same problem, now I actually hope for weak hand classifiers! Somebody wise who wrote a book said something to the effect of, "if you want to be great you must practice what you don't like to do" I really took that to heart. SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted August 1, 2002 Share Posted August 1, 2002 It's not really a matter of strength. It's a matter of isolating all movement in the hand down to just the trigger finger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted August 1, 2002 Share Posted August 1, 2002 Duane pretty much said it. I place 95% of my attention in the actual grip of my weak hand and "feeeelllllll" it very still while shooting. And with the remaining 5% of my attention - I just watch the sites. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Merricks Posted August 2, 2002 Share Posted August 2, 2002 Everytime I practice I shoot week hand. The more I shoot (at that given time) the worse I get. I think it is due to fatigue. Thats the reason I think I need more strength. I think more strength would help 2nd shots as well. Front sight lifts completely above A/B zone. My grip could use some work as well. Need to get my Bible back from a friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted August 2, 2002 Author Share Posted August 2, 2002 Thanks guys. Smart ass answers can also be referred to as truthful... The thing that confuses me right now is why I can shoot all "A"s with the air gun at 7 & 17 yards, then stink so bad with real ammo. I'll keep dry firing and working on increasing my strength and see what that does to my live fire results. I'm hoping Brian's book shows up today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 2, 2002 Share Posted August 2, 2002 The thing that confuses me right now is why I can shoot all "A"s with the air gun at 7 & 17 yards, then stink so bad with real ammo. JFD, Check out the quote from BE in my signature line and then check out my first post. I think the first step is to know what the problem is, then look for the cause (like muscle fatigue...which doesn't seem likely, since you do fine with the air-gun). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted August 2, 2002 Share Posted August 2, 2002 Two more thoughts about weak hand shooting: 1. A big obstacle is how "weird" the gun feels when it fires. This likely tells the brain that something unusual is happening, which causes the brain to NOT have a conditioned response to the feeling. This may account for your poor live fire performance. 2. The speed of weak hand shots will always be much slower, even for master and GM shooters. In Avery's tapes, his weak hand shots are at least twice as slow as his strong hand shots, plus the gun can be seen in a much more violent recoil arc. This means that even big dogs slow down and shoot the pace the gun works best. It's always fun to shoot the NRA action stage that requires (I think) 6 shots strong, a reload and six shots weak and gives somthing like 15 SECONDS to shoot those 12 shots. Nobody even comes close to taking that much time...even when consciously trying to. I would suggest starting at 5 yards weka hand onlyt, resist the temptation to point shoot, and shoot A's at a nice slow pace, then gradually work the target out. When that goes well, shoot tighter groups at close range, then move those out. Your buddies will be calling ya "lefty" in no time! The most important thing for me was to get used to that weird feeling, then get back to basics. SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted August 2, 2002 Share Posted August 2, 2002 [Wrongness Mode ON] JFD - I had the same problem as you. If I close my right eye, when shooting left-handed, the problem cures itself. Then all I do is watch the sights like Brian says. My last weak-hand classifier wasn't the fastest, but I didn't drop a single point weak-handed. I make it a point to finish up a practice session weak-handed. It helps fix that "What's that alien thing hanging off my arm out there?" vibe. Good Luck, E (Edited by EricW at 6:59 am on Aug. 2, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted August 2, 2002 Author Share Posted August 2, 2002 I'll have to try the coin trick. I tried closing my right eye. No improvement. The recoil does feel wierd as hell though. I don't believe I'm flinching, no reason to. It's wierd instead of unpleasant. I'll keep an eye on this though since I'm shooting the non-recoiling air gun very well and flinching does cause big time misses. There's no telling what I'm doing with the grip though. I definitely was not calling my shots. I guess in reality I was just a big sloppy mess. While air gun practice and dry firing can't hurt, I think I had better try a live fire weak hand only session with a lot of attention placed on the basics. I'll start close and increase the range to match my ability. This is probably going to turn out to be another situation like my previous DA revolver weakness. I couldn't hit squat DA no matter how well I could dry fire. It made no sense at all. I went the the range and started DA shooting at 3 yards, gradually increasing the distance to 17 yards (our main pistol berm). After 700 rounds I must have forgotten whatever was causing my problem. The next week I won a revolver match. A couple of months later there was an IDPA stage where a "pick up" gun had to be used. I grabbed the DA Ruger and ended up with 6 "A" hits at 7 or so yards without thinking twice. Now DA shooting no longer feels wierd at all, even though 99% of my shooting is with a 1911. If I was calling the shots and concentrating properly I would probably know what the problem is. I had already fired 400+ rounds before switching to the weak hand and probably should have just gone home. I appreciate all the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted August 2, 2002 Share Posted August 2, 2002 You might try loading up some duds and mixing them into your mags at random. I used this to work out a major flinching issue. You need to be careful about "believing" you're not doing something. I thought the same thing until I hit a dummy round and watched my front sight rocket downward. You're just going through the normal follow-through learning curve everyone does. Keep at it. You'll have your epiphany one day and it will all work out. E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old shooter Posted August 2, 2002 Share Posted August 2, 2002 JFD, I don't know if this helps or not, but I cant the gun just a bit clockwise and it seems to even out the tension in the muscles of my forearm. I sight with my right eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted August 4, 2002 Share Posted August 4, 2002 Quote: from old shooter on 4:57 pm on Aug. 2, 2002 JFD, I don't know if this helps or not, but I cant the gun just a bit clockwise and it seems to even out the tension in the muscles of my forearm. I sight with my right eye. I do the same (cant the gun) when firing weakhand. Now I wonder where to put the coin when dry firing....hmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmiller45 Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Well, I think you guys are lucky. I shoot right handed because my right eye is my master eye, but I'm left handed. I have to practice strong hand only shooting, at further distances than those typically found for weak hand shooting. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that my strong hand shooting is what kept me out of master class back in the early 90s. You should see the eyebrows raise when I shoot 'weak' hand though. Almost comical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiserb Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 This Article helped me quite a bit. http://www.midwesttraininggroup.com/WeakHand.pdf (Edited by kaiserb at 10:54 am on Aug. 5, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted August 5, 2002 Author Share Posted August 5, 2002 I've made a discovery that may help, based on some of the tips here. It seems that I'm managing to push the gun to the right with my trigger finger. It seems to help if I lock my elbow and establish something along the line of a "death grip" on the gun. Further practice shows that a firmer than normal grip combined with more fingertip trigger operation gives me good dry fire results. I'll have to see what happens at the range next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted August 9, 2002 Author Share Posted August 9, 2002 I fired a few hundred rounds today at the range. Results at 17 yards were not so hot, but much better than my last attempt. Results at 7 yards were quite good. Apparently I have little natural ability with my left hand, as it took a whole lot more effort. The key seemed to be really concentrating on what I was doing. I could get head shots if I really slowed down, but managed pretty good speed and accuracy as long as I was really concentrating on the task at hand. Any attempt to "just let it happen" resulted in pretty horrible "D" hits. I wasn't flinching, and it didn't feel too wierd this time. I tried some weak hand shooting with my 686, but that was just pitiful. Sort of like my strong hand revolver ability. I feel if I can shoot the revolver with either hand, then my 1911 shooting will be terrific. Now it will just take time and practice to make it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted August 9, 2002 Share Posted August 9, 2002 Remember this: You're basically learning to shoot again. Were you fast or accurate with your first 250 shots you ever shot from a pistol? The fundamentals will teach you how to do this. Sounds lke you're on the right track. SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted August 9, 2002 Share Posted August 9, 2002 Bad plan to lock your elbow, tennis elbow on the horizon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted August 9, 2002 Author Share Posted August 9, 2002 "You're basically learning to shoot again" That's the truth! I believe that additional bit of focus needed to hit with the left hand would also help my freestyle and strong hand shooting. I'm still working on the formula "focus = speed" during my backyard practice sessions as well. I forgot all about the death grip and locking the elbow once I got to the range. My arm was extended pretty straight, but not quite locked. Thanks for mentioning tennis elbow. I've suffered from "golf elbow" in the past and have no desire to go through that again. I already have arthritis and don't need additional pain. I'll be shooting an IDPA match this Sunday and will see if I can apply what I've learned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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