NRA Action Pistol

[racine]

I'm interested in hearing from established NRA Action Pistol programs(Bianchi Cup) on the logistics of running this program at a local club. We have the mover assembly albeit in the process of repair, steel plates (also needing repair), a 50 yd range and some barricades. Our range VP is denying the use of FMJ bullets (ie. WWB, Blazers, etc.) but yet insisting we can grow our program and even host a state match?! My reply was that FMJ splatter just as much as lead reloads and that this is addressed by eye protection, training and reasonable distances to steel. Disallowing FMJ/JHP bullets will eliminate casual shooters interested in trying the sport whose only affordable option for ammunition is Walmart, the internet, etc... My suggestion to this officer is first to establish all stages as workable, have the rule books, targets and steel in working condition. The next step is to run NRA Action Pistol without the initial affiliation with the NRA in order to generate some club revenue, to review viability and interest of the local shooters and then decide to proceed if the numbers and interest is there.

Any suggestions from established program directors would be greatly appreciated. We do not wish to exclude the NRA (membership is a requirement of being a member) but in a small rural town filled with people of limited means I would like to generate interest with the general public in mind and then decide if the program has any potential.

Thanks in Advance,

Racine

[Alan550]

racine,

You're correct about the ammo question. You'd run into major rejection by shooters if you are limiting the match to lead ammo. I know of no one shooting Open class that uses lead because it fouls up the comp so badly. Also the accuracy isn't that good at 50 yds (generally speaking) at the velocities we shoot.

So far as the NRA is concerned, that sanction could be a draw for shooters as well to get them interested. When we started AP here at our club, I invited the members out for the first match and told them (he he!) that they'd be guaranteed a classification card from NRA with at least a Marksman rating! Most fell for it! We went from a few participants at the beginning to now averaging 15-20 shooters per match, some of those shooting 2 guns And people travelling as far as 4-5 hours to shoot with us! BTW, the $4.50 that you have to send to NRA per shooter isn't all that much in the big scheme of things. We even supply grilled hot dogs, chips and water for lunch in the $20.00 entry fee.

Targets will run about $.60/ea and we only use 5 per gun, 2 each on the Barricade & Practical and 1 on the mover, so that comes to $3.00 per gun.

Get some RO volunteers and train them well! That's the biggest problem we have, getting help to run the matches. You might contact the NRA Competitions Division (Tom Hughes is the Bianchi Cup co-ordinater) as they are putting together a volunteer program of experienced shooters and ROs to help new clubs get going on some of the sanctioned matches.

E-mail me if you need specifics as I've been running this type match for several years now, and have probably run into most of the difficulties that you'll experience. A whole book could be written on the subject!

Alan~^~

[gm iprod]

Everything Alan said + lots.

We have a club over here that had issues with FMJ and JHP, they somehow decided (probably the local "expert" probably helped with this) that these would ricochet / splatter more. Well it took a while but we finaly put logic to use and convinced them that bullets either splatter or ricochet they can't do both.

Slow bullets that will tend to remain in one piece seem to ricochet. Fast light JHP and FMJ tend to splatter against steel.

Low angles into sand or dirt will rocochet more, so be aware of the angle of berms, make them steep. We use chipped rubber on berms to reduce ricochet.

Splatter can be contained by carefull use of covers. Thick timber or steel plate is best. You have issues with funding so careful scrounging will serve.

If there is any help you need with range design, just ask anyone that you can find. We all have good ideas, you just need to filter them.

[oldtrooper]

Great advise from the first two replies. We have been running AP matches for years and faced the same problems you describe. The club started AP matches in the 1980's and put on a regional match for several years. The powers to be would only allow lead bullets. They believed that jacketed bullets would turn into little flying buzz saws. I saw shooters show up for the regional from three states away after jacked bullets were the norm at the CUP and were accepted at every other range we traveled to be informed they couldn't shoot the regional unless they could find lead bullets to use. Needless to say the attendance starting dropping off at the regionals there. Several of us finally set up the Bianchi course on private property about fifteen miles away in another county and we have good turn outs and have held regionals there for several years now.

I have RO'd hundreds of shooters on the plates and have been blooded three times and in each instance the shooter was using lead bullets. At the ten yard line the lead can splatter and fly back as far as the firing line. Getting a lead sliver stuck in your nose will make one a believer in eye protection. To date I have never felt a hit from a jacketed round except one falling from above that hit on my cap.

You mentioned that the plates need work. If they have noticeable craters from high velocity rounds these will send large chunks back at the shooters. Get them repaired or replaced. When the bullet hits one edge of the crater it will follow the curve of the crater and come back out straight at you. I saw an RO at a USPSA catch a chunk of a .40 cal. round that penetrated deep enough to necessitate having it removed at the local ER. Require eye protection for every one on the plate range even spectators and if they do not have side protection stress that they should face the plate racks while shots are being fired.

The major disadvantage of using lead bullets is the smoke. I have seen the mover completely disappear in the smoke cloud after about the third shot on a still day. The same when shooting the three&three at the twenty five yard line on a still day.

I can understand your problem with the powers to be at the club.

[goldfieldshooter]

racine

I am afraid that you are up against a club 'expert' . A person that hasn't been anywhere and done even less. Ask him when he last shot an Action Match at another club,out of state or even overseas. We have a range certification system in New Zealand that is administered by the police but all the inspections are done by Pistol NZ members. The only thing that is in the rules about ammo and steel is,as Alan stated, that steel must be in good condition. We recommend less than 2mm craters and then reface or renew. Only armour piercing ammo is a 'no no'.The biggest pieces of ammo I find on our range is hard cast lead. BUT the main rule is that all people entering the range, competitors and spectators, must wear eye and ear protection. I hope he is aware that we run a 'hot' range and we draw loaded guns from a holster. I am not mocking , as I was lectured very severely about holsters being the ruination of our sport and would get pistol shooting banned world wide.

Try and get him to allow some experienced action shooters to give him a hand to run the shoots and he might see the error of his ways.

Good Luck

Coatesy

[oldtrooper]

racine

I am afraid that you are up against a club 'expert' . A person that hasn't been anywhere and done even less. Ask him when he last shot an Action Match at another club,out of state or even overseas. We have a range certification system in New Zealand that is administered by the police but all the inspections are done by Pistol NZ members. The only thing that is in the rules about ammo and steel is,as Alan stated, that steel must be in good condition. We recommend less than 2mm craters and then reface or renew. Only armour piercing ammo is a 'no no'.The biggest pieces of ammo I find on our range is hard cast lead. BUT the main rule is that all people entering the range, competitors and spectators, must wear eye and ear protection. I hope he is aware that we run a 'hot' range and we draw loaded guns from a holster. I am not mocking , as I was lectured very severely about holsters being the ruination of our sport and would get pistol shooting banned world wide.

Try and get him to allow some experienced action shooters to give him a hand to run the shoots and he might see the error of his ways.

Good Luck

Coatesy

I forgot about the hot range when actually firing a course of fire. The old moss backs insisted that we unload after completing the string at say the ten yard line and only reload on command at the fifteen yard line. It took forever to get them to listen to what the NRA was saying and allow us to run a hot range. They also would not consider allowing us to build and put in place metal frame barricades as used at the CUP. Much too dangerous due to having a bullet strike the metal frame on a down range barricade.

I often wondered how they could work up the courage to drive down the two lane highway to get to the range.

Oldtrooper

[ciscoip]

If this is going to continue to be a problem, I would suggest folks start contacting the NRA range technical teams and asking them to come out your ranges and review them. They do this for a small fee and provide advice on possible safety concerns (or lack of). That way, the you'll have some real experts to shut down the "club experts." Plus, it probably wouldn't hurt on the liability front to have on file that you've had your range reviewed by experts who have looked at hundreds (thousands?) of ranges from a safety standpoint.