harald Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Will a barrel with rifle twist 1-18 be a good barrel for heavy barrels like 158 - 180gr in 357 magnum? Or is this barrel twist better with lighter bullets? Hope You understand my Norwenglish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolguy Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 (edited) At Magnum velocities with those bullet weights it will be fairly accurate to around 100 yards. Lighter weight bullets will be accurate too, but not as far out as the heavier ones. Edited January 12, 2009 by Toolguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Will a barrel with rifle twist 1-18 be a good barrel for heavy barrels like 158 - 180gr in 357 magnum?Or is this barrel twist better with lighter bullets? Hope You understand my Norwenglish Harold, from my limited experinence the slower the twist the higher the velocity is needed. As Toolguy alluded to, at Magnum Velocities both will do well. But I would go with lighter bullets because of the recoil. And it depends on what you are going to use the handgun for. Hunting = big bullets not fired much. I hope this is helpful. later rdd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harald Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 This revolver is for a Norwegian national competition, where there is a minimum power factor of 190. The 158gr bullet must have a faster muzzle velocety then 1210 f/s and a 180gr bullet must have muzzle velocety over 1060 f/s. Will these bullets be stabilized in these muzzle velocities out to 100 yards? I will shoot cast bullets, not jacked bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 This revolver is for a Norwegian national competition, where there is a minimum power factor of 190.The 158gr bullet must have a faster muzzle velocety then 1210 f/s and a 180gr bullet must have muzzle velocety over 1060 f/s. Will these bullets be stabilized in these muzzle velocities out to 100 yards? I will shoot cast bullets, not jacked bullets. 190, Dang that is alot. I wish I could tell you but I just don't know. For me it is a combination of barrel bullet and powder. With those velocities are you using a gas check? I know you can get in the neighborhood of 1000 fps but much more than that is iffy in what little I know. Let us know what you find out. Later rdd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolguy Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 The 180 bullet will be the best one for your purposes. It will give the best accuracy and moderate recoil. Try not to go over 1100 fps so you will be subsonic all the way out. A 180 hollow point will be more accurate, but a 180 cast will probably still do what you want to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom E Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 The 180 bullet will be the best one for your purposes. It will give the best accuracy and moderate recoil. Try not to go over1100 fps so you will be subsonic all the way out. A 180 hollow point will be more accurate, but a 180 cast will probably still do what you want to do. Wouldn't a faster twist be better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolguy Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Yes - a faster twist would be better. If you already have a gun with this barrel, it will work. If you are buying a barrel, get the fastest twist you can find. Ideally 1 in 10 or 1 in 12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harald Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 Shilen does not say anything about muzzle velocety on their web site: http://www.shilen.com/calibersAndTwists.html just low velocety...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolguy Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 My 686 PPC gun with a 1- 10 twist 6" Douglass barrel will shoot 148gr. wadcutters in 2 inch or better groups at 50 yards with a crosshair scope (not a red dot) and sandbags on a cement benchrest. The same setup will do 2 to 3 inch groups at 100 yards with 170gr or 180gr hollowpoints at about 1100 fps. The groups are somewhat larger offhand with iron sights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allgoodhits Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Yes - a faster twist would be better. If you already have a gun with this barrel, it will work. If you are buying a barrel,get the fastest twist you can find. Ideally 1 in 10 or 1 in 12. S&W uses or at least did use a 1:18 twist on all of their .38 and .357 barrels. My guess is that someone rebarreled using the same or similar twist. During the era most ammo was 158gr or 200 gr lead bullets for duty use or 148gr WC for target use. Some thought Colt had a slight advantage with the 1:16 twist, but I don't think it held as much as was thought. Custom 'smiths starting using .358 barrel blanks intended for rifles with 1:10 or so twist, and then shortly thereafter barrels became available in .358 with 1:12, 1:14 twist too. Later barrels beacme available in .355, .356. and .357 in a range of twist rates when the Super Vel and later lighter weight jacketed bullets starting coming on the scene in the 110 and 125 gr. weights. Twist rates within reason just haven't proven across the board to be all that critical at handgun velocities. I think Beretta uses 1:9 and now many are playing with 1:24 and 1:32. I think Wil Scheman is a 1:24 believer, but a good gun will shoot period, if you find the sweatspot for that particular bullet. ...other than all that I would listen to Toolguy, as he has been there done that and has actual data to support his thoughts. There is theory, there is data and then there is results. I'd go with results! MJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzShooter Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Perfect time for this threat. I've been playing with 180 grain cast bullets recently and they work great out of my 627 with stock barrel. They would be better out of the 1 in 18 because they would be able to stabilize at the velocity you are going to need for 190 power factor. You will have no problem in .357 cases with a number of powders. I'm casting using wheel weights that are water quenched and are extremely hard. I just ordered a LEE hardness tester to be sure of my BHN but it calculates to over 24 now. Light loads don't work near as well as hotter charges. The hotter I go the more they stabilize and the tighter my groups have gotten. Even trying to just make 750 fps for USPSA, a little hot but they group better, I can see a big difference in .1 of a grain charge . Shooting to less than 750 causes primer blowouts meaning there is not enough pressure with the bullet combination. My moulds come from: http://lbtmoulds.com/. Check out their website I'm sure you will be pleased. Get Veral Smith's book on Making Lead Bullets As Accurate As Jacketed and you will learn some amazing tricks. Good luck. If I can help, email me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harald Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 Thanks to everyone You are fast with answers, and can really help me This is a super forum!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Harald - During the 1960s, many American police officers used the Winchester Super Police load, which was a 200 grain RNL at about 625 fps. I've never read any reports of problems with unstabilized bullets with that load. Factory S&W and Ruger barrels (both with 1 in 18-3/4" twists) were used in metallic silhouette revolvers shooting Lyman 215 grain LSWCs out to 200 meters with no problems during the 1980s...and the PFs were much higher than 190 in those loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 If you want to spend the $$ on a phone call Doug Shillen is a good guy and an old time shooter. he knows what his barrels will do and what they like. I was useing my barrel for light bullets going 1100 he recomended the 1-14 twist But give him a call you will be happy with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viggen Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Perfect time for this threat. I've been playing with 180 grain cast bullets recently and they work great out of my 627 with stock barrel. They would be better out of the 1 in 18 because they would be able to stabilize at the velocity you are going to need for 190 power factor.You will have no problem in .357 cases with a number of powders. I'm casting using wheel weights that are water quenched and are extremely hard. I just ordered a LEE hardness tester to be sure of my BHN but it calculates to over 24 now. Light loads don't work near as well as hotter charges. The hotter I go the more they stabilize and the tighter my groups have gotten. Even trying to just make 750 fps for USPSA, a little hot but they group better, I can see a big difference in .1 of a grain charge . Shooting to less than 750 causes primer blowouts meaning there is not enough pressure with the bullet combination. My moulds come from: http://lbtmoulds.com/. Check out their website I'm sure you will be pleased. Get Veral Smith's book on Making Lead Bullets As Accurate As Jacketed and you will learn some amazing tricks. Good luck. If I can help, email me Heavy And Fast. My inclination would be to run 2400 or Unique. What powders do you favor? Pretty cool that he needs a 190PF - that's going to be a real hammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinger Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I've cast the Lyman 195gr round nose for years. 8.0gr of Blue Dot gets about 1200ft/sec out of my 6" 686. It's a real bowling pin killer...but i've never shot it much farther than 25 yards. Seems to be very accurate/stable out to 25yds. Typically..the heavier the bullet, the faster the twist needed to stabilize the bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allgoodhits Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Harald - During the 1960s, many American police officers used the Winchester Super Police load, which was a 200 grain RNL at about 625 fps. I've never read any reports of problems with unstabilized bullets with that load. Factory S&W and Ruger barrels (both with 1 in 18-3/4" twists) were used in metallic silhouette revolvers shooting Lyman 215 grain LSWCs out to 200 meters with no problems during the 1980s...and the PFs were much higher than 190 in those loads. Wasn't it called Lubaloy or something like that? Kind of a gold color. Sh_t I'm gettin old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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