rmills Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Now that Ken Hackathorn has stepped down from the IDPA Board, does anyone have any idea who will replace him (or will he be replaced)? Many IDPA SO's have been working on the rules over the last several months as requested by the board. Their task was not to create new rules or regulations, but to fine tune the existing ones. For example, its always been asked, if someone is shooting a stage where they were only allowed to load six rounds and had to engage x number of targets while moving to cover and while engaging they went to slide lock before cover was reached, is it OK to reload without being behind cover? In real life situations, one would be a fool not to do a reload if faced with an empty weapon behind cover or not, BUT according to the rules, one must be behind cover to do a reload. This is just one example of something that they were fine tuning. However, from what I understand in speaking to one of the SO's, after completing the work, the home office now does not seem interested. What is the situation within IDPA headquarters? Does anyone know? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayonaise Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 1) The SO's aren't involved in the rule book revision. The AC's are. There is a new, revised book coming. I would not expect any major sweeping changes however. 2) I have never seen a stage with downloaded magazines except for a Vickers Count stage at a sanctioned match. A "standards" or Limited Vickers stage, yes. I don't think you could get a COF like you described approved for a sanctioned match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmills Posted August 17, 2003 Author Share Posted August 17, 2003 The SO for our club has spent a lot of time on the rules clarificaton. Maybe he was doing the work for the AC. At our local matches we see the downloaded situation frequently. I agree, it shouldn't happen. Poor COF design in my opinion. We see a lot of "Skills Tests" type COF's which have all sorts of wierd situations rather than COF's which reflect real world scenario's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Nesbitt Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 To the best of my knowledge only Bill Wilson & John Sayle are on the board of directors. When I spoke with John a few weeks ago he said it would probably remain like that for a while. A group of AC's & Safety Officer Instructors took it upon themselves to do a "clarification" of the rule book. It was presented to IDPA HQ several months ago and little has been heard since. Bill Nesbitt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Bill Little has been heard "from" the AC's and the SO Instructors, or little has been heard of their suggestions? I guess the public will know something when/if Hq realizes you can't put out a forest fire with a squirt gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Nesbitt Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Little has been heard from HQ about if they like it or not. The AC's and SOI's that did the clarification thought it was a work of art. Bill Nesbitt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Bill Why don't you get on the BOD at IDPA. You certainly have the qualifications. And on top of having the shooting credentials, you do seem to weigh the issues carefully before expresssing yourself and your posture. I personally think you would make a fine addition to the Board. You shoot with Ken and know most of the others who already sit on the BOD, shouldn't be too much of a thing, to get Hackathorn to back your nomination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmist10 Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 I agree with Tightloop! My first request to you as "pistolero-potentate" would be that you have each MD put the SSR scores first from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Nesbitt Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Thanks for the votes but no thanks. I used to be a section coordinator for USPSA. That would be way more headaches than I want. See - - - with one of the first votes I get requests to change stuff. Bill Nesbitt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 He will rescind his request if you will just get in there and add some reason and logic to those meetingsl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Bill, You've got my vote. Now...about that "Glock Only" division... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1b Posted August 25, 2003 Share Posted August 25, 2003 I think the challenge IDPA is going to have is going to be change. And Bill you would make a great passer of reason that can insure that change takes place while maintaining the "heart and soul" of IDPA. IDPA is fighting turning into IPSC. All the founders have been through IPSC, they know the changes that happened to the sport, and they are fighting like mad to insure the same thing doesn't happen to IDPA. I am all for that, keep it simple and fun. BUT . . . change does have to happen. For two very good reasons. One is that they need to amend the parts that are broken. Obviously there are a few parts broken. Second, they need to change to grow. Change is paramount to success - corporations that don't change, don't exist anymore. Its a challenge that I know they will get through. I may not like EVERY characteristic of IDPA - but I generally like where they are going. I like what they've created. It would behoove them to create a simple, easy, pointed mission statement, and then make changes that don't infringe upon that mission statement. IDPA is great, but it is still competition. Maybe the BOD doesn't want to admit that - but it's true. Call it training if you want, but in the end it's competition. Call it defensive if you want, but in the end it's (offensive) competition. I read an article not too long ago in Tactical Journal talking about stage design and the request was made to make sure stages are designed defensively - in other words a stand and shoot or retreating stage. If that is all that's out there then I would be concerned with IDPA continuing to move forward - because a lot of people shoot it for Competition. Even the guns being used are up for debate. A guide rod in a 1911 for a defensive weapon??? I don't think so - but my IDPA gun has one. As does most eveyone else's. Would a good tacticion do this? Hell no - but we competitors know it feels a lot nicer. Oh - I guess I ranted there a bit - but in the end I think they are headed in the right direction and just need a little common sense presence on the BOD. I like what they've done, but they need some fresh eye's on the case to make sure change happens and that it is change in the best interest of the sport and its objectives. OK - I'm done - but thanks for letting me go - JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted August 25, 2003 Share Posted August 25, 2003 Even the guns being used are up for debate. A guide rod in a 1911 for a defensive weapon??? I don't think so - but my IDPA gun has one. As does most eveyone else's. Would a good tacticion do this? Hell no - but we competitors know it feels a lot nicer. Why not, just out of curiosity? I have one in the 1911 I carry. I can't really see a negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted August 25, 2003 Share Posted August 25, 2003 Duane I can see the controversy in a guide rod. I am like you, I have one in my carry pistol, but the pistol wasn't designed with one... Let me say just one more time what an addition to the board I think Bill would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Nesbitt Posted August 25, 2003 Share Posted August 25, 2003 I believe the "Heart and Soul" of IDPA is in the local club. That is the way it was designed from the start. I don't see that we will get a lot of direction coming from IDPA HQ in the near future. They believe (and rightly so) that IDPA is not broken. We have a good rule book. Maybe not as clear as it could be but pretty good. When a local club designs stages they should not look for all the rules that might "hinder" stage design. They should look at the openness that allows them to design good, interesting stages. With very little trouble you can design open freestyle stages. Here's the problem, solve it. Remember, if available, cover must be used and reloads must be made from cover. Those are the main rules. All divisions are only competing within that division so round count at each shooting position is not as important. ( I know. I always look at high overall too ) Too many clubs think IDPA is boring where you shoot the stage exactly as choreographed by the MD. Shoot 6 here and go over there and shoot 6 and only reload where I tell you. Not so. Mix stuff up. Shoot 3 on every target. Stick a plate or popper in here or there to get the "reloaders" round count off. There are so many things that can be done to spice up a stage. Come to the West Virginia State Championship this Sunday to see. I think the biggest change that needs to happen is for some MD's to take their blinders off. Yes, it is competition. It is not training although someone who is good at IDPA will probably do good on the street. I have a full length guide rod in my Glock. Should I cut it off or what?? I am confused. Flex, I see several Glock divisions: 1: stock out of the box with fat ugly sights, 2: slightly modified ie: connector & sights change, and 3: drilled trigger bar, polished etc. What do you think?? Bill Nesbitt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 25, 2003 Share Posted August 25, 2003 Flex, I see several Glock divisions: 1: stock out of the box with fat ugly sights, 2: slightly modified ie: connector & sights change, and 3: drilled trigger bar, polished etc. What do you think?? Three divisions for IDPA...those sound good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted August 25, 2003 Share Posted August 25, 2003 Help a confused 1911 shooter understand, why would you need or want 3 different groups of Glock shooters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Nesbitt Posted August 25, 2003 Share Posted August 25, 2003 tightloop, I can see I need some lessons in how to make a joke on the internet. I was just pulling Flex's chain a little bit. I think the divisions are just fine the way they are. Bill Nesbitt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted August 25, 2003 Share Posted August 25, 2003 Sorry I am so slow on the uptake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1b Posted August 25, 2003 Share Posted August 25, 2003 Guys, Please don't read too much into my change statement. I think change will happen because it always happens. I like IDPA . I like the way it is formatted and I like the simplicity of the stages. I like the design of the divisions. I agree 100% that an IDPA competitor would be more equipped to handle a bad situation. I hope it doesn't change much - because I don't feel like it is terribly broken. But I do feel like change will take place, because in my limited experience change always happens. By virtue of that I think you need someone at the helm that recognizes change will happen and is able to steer the sport in a direction that encourages the right type of change. I am not critical - I just think that change will happen and direction from the top down needs to make certain that change is in the interest of the sport. Local level drives the shooting. Local level makes the sport. No doubt. That is why you would make an ideal person (Bill) for the board - because you realize this and can implement change that caters to everyone (or almost everyone ) As for the guide rod comment - perhaps it's personal preference. I was fortunate to do some work with some military guys that have a tendency to get in the shjt a little too much . They wouldn't get caught dead (no pun intended) with a guide rod because it limits the ability to clear a malfunction if things go seriously wrong. One of the guys is a smith (build excellent guns) and won't build a 1911 with a guide rod. I guess he's got some negative experience to draw on. I've always thought this was standard practice for the nitty gritty carry guys - I don't have a guide rod in my carry gun for that reason. I apologize if I came off wrong. I'm certain I sounded critical when in fact I am not. Thanks! Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Posted August 25, 2003 Share Posted August 25, 2003 "I agree 100% that an IDPA competitor would be more equipped to handle a bad situation." Any substantial evidence to back this up?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 25, 2003 Share Posted August 25, 2003 "I agree 100% that an IDPA competitor would be more equipped to handle a bad situation."Any substantial evidence to back this up?? Sounds to me like he was stating an opinion, not a fact. Not sure what kind of evidence you would be looking for? If think that logic whould dictate that someone who shoots in one of the practical pistol games...and puts thousands of rounds downrange...would likely be better "equiped". But, hey...lets not go down this road (tactics). This thread has a very specific topic. We have already drifted too far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Perez Posted August 25, 2003 Share Posted August 25, 2003 j1b what type of changes are you speaking of and do you mean full length guide rod? until that day, MP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1b Posted August 26, 2003 Share Posted August 26, 2003 Kyle, You are right. I probably drifted too far, although I made the point in relation to having a solid BOD, which I think Bill Nesbitt would be good for. Ok - for the record - I have no idea how IDPA would change. I'm not in any way stating they need to change. I am merely pointing out that I think they will change, because organizations do change. That is not a fact, but an observation. Companies change, people change, organizations change, clubs change - you guys get the point. Having a solid BOD insures that the changes that (I feel) will inevitably take place will be change for the good. Change IS good, but if not controlled allows the organization to turn into something it was not originally meant to be. Fossil, I have no evidence to back up my statement. It is simply an observation. Anyone who has felt the pressure of competing in a big match, has felt more pressure shooting than someone who has not. I am assuming that being in a gun fight involves a bit of pressure, so I am assuming that shooting in a match (and practicing for that match) would make a person better prepared. Mark - The guide rod comment was probably out of line. I think it strayed from the topic of the main thread and was inapproriate because it looks as though a lot of you (my friends) carry guide rod equipped blasters. Some people I've been associated with swear against them and I kind of thought that was status que. That was again a bad assumption. I did mean a full length guide rod though. I hope you all don't think me an ass for bringing this stuff up. I wasn't meaning to be hostile or critical. All I was doing was pointing out my observations over the years. I love IDPA. In fact, after my last IPSC match I am thinking about converting over to IDPA almost 100%. I think what they are doing is great, and my hope is that they don't change much from where they are today. Thanks guys - I'll try and hold my tongue a bit more in the future. JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Nesbitt Posted August 26, 2003 Share Posted August 26, 2003 Jack, Don't hold your tongue. You are one of the good guys here. As far as IDPA goes. Yes there will be change because there will always be change. I hope it goes in the right direction. I doubt there will be any sweeping changes to the rulebook. That means as long as the local clubs hold true to the basics if IDPA there won't be vast changes. As far as the BOD. IDPA is owned by Bill Wilson. He will run it as he sees fit. BOD members are appointed by Bill Wilson. I doubt that he would appoint me. I thank all of you for the support. However my wife has told me we will be shooting more matches next year instead of working so many of them. Who do you think I should listen too? My wife or my friends here at be.com? Bill Nesbitt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now