Pistol gripping issues

[Kaizer]

Dear all,

Newbie with guns here and got some issues with the grip.

I'm Cross dominance (RH/LE).

Here's my problem:

Started off with the weaver stance (push, pull technique), must be too much movies I guess... LOL

Been reading awhile here and notice the drawbacks of the weaver (transitions and instability during awkward shooting position). So decided to try iso stance yesterday. Got the same grouping as when I'm doing the weaver stance but the problem here is the follow up shots.

Every shot I took with the ISO stance, the gun (a stock rental G19) seems wanting to jump out of my hand! I can't take confident 2nd shots without regripping. When I'm doing Weaver, there is no issue.

Therefore would like to ask the regulars here of any secrets in getting a firm hold when in ISO stance?

I also find that if I were to cant the gun towards the left side, it aids my aiming (both eyes open). Will I face any issues/deterants in the long run?

Best Regards,

[Duane Thomas]

How do you grip the gun? What's your technique?

[Kaizer]

LOL! Silly me... I'm asking about a grip issue but I didn't say my grip technique. Sorry guys.

I'm using both thumb forward grip. Don't have a pix for a better illustration, but if there's anything that I can explain more, do let me know & thanks in advance.

[Flexmoney]

Coming from the weaver, you are likely gripping the gun...holding onto it...with your strong hand doing most all of the work.

You'll need to lose that.

Square up to your target (hips and shoulders). Get your two handed grip with the thumbs forward. Press the gun out toward the target with the gun in alignment with your dominant eye (don't tilt your head from side to side).

Your grip should have about 70% of the gripping force coming from the WEAK hand. The strong had should exert minimal pressure...mostly on the front and back straps of the gun. The weak hand will provide most all of the gripping action...through acting like a C-clamp and exerting pressure side to side.

Also, there is a "camming action" that you can get from your weak hand side. That is probably a topic you should look up.

Once you get this worked out (experience the feel/tension while shooting) then the gun will return to the target better. And, with less tension coming from the strong hand...you will work the trigger better and your hits will improve. (No more of those hits that are going down and to the off side on you that I'll bet you are seeing )

[Micah]

Flexes advice is (as always) right on the money. Although it is no substitute for proper technique, I would also recommend TruGrip on your gun. It is a type of grip tape specifically created for your gun and will provide you with a very firm hold on the gun.

Again, grip tape is no panacea for proper technique.

[bkeeler]

This may help also. Click

Flex is spot on!

I find myself getting a bit lazy on my grip pressure sometimes.

BK

[Duane Thomas]

Click here:

http://www.handgunsmag.com/tactics_training/combatg_100306/

[Kaizer]

Coming from the weaver, you are likely gripping the gun...holding onto it...with your strong hand doing most all of the work.

You'll need to lose that.

Square up to your target (hips and shoulders). Get your two handed grip with the thumbs forward. Press the gun out toward the target with the gun in alignment with your dominant eye (don't tilt your head from side to side).

Your grip should have about 70% of the gripping force coming from the WEAK hand. The strong had should exert minimal pressure...mostly on the front and back straps of the gun. The weak hand will provide most all of the gripping action...through acting like a C-clamp and exerting pressure side to side.

Also, there is a "camming action" that you can get from your weak hand side. That is probably a topic you should look up.

Once you get this worked out (experience the feel/tension while shooting) then the gun will return to the target better. And, with less tension coming from the strong hand...you will work the trigger better and your hits will improve. (No more of those hits that are going down and to the off side on you that I'll bet you are seeing )

Thanks Flex. I did try to get the weak hand grip harder, but once it exceeds a level, it tends to shake (weak muscle I guess?). I also tried aligning my weak hand thumb to my strong hand index finger.

Would it be possible I'm just gripping too hard & rigid causing the weak hand to break away during recoil? How loose can one grip a gun without limp wristing?

Flexes advice is (as always) right on the money. Although it is no substitute for proper technique, I would also recommend TruGrip on your gun. It is a type of grip tape specifically created for your gun and will provide you with a very firm hold on the gun.

Again, grip tape is no panacea for proper technique.

That is not possible sir, as it is a range rental. Maybe it's just me, but it does feels slippery. Ya know, like a golf club with hardened grip? & sweaty hands? The thing feels like wanna flyoff with the ball during a swing.

This may help also. Click

Flex is spot on!

I find myself getting a bit lazy on my grip pressure sometimes.

BK

Yup, watched that. Thanks for the headsup.

Click here:

http://www.handgunsmag.com/tactics_training/combatg_100306/

Thanks for the headsup.

All that said, has anybody here shooting the C.A.R System? I haven't personally tried it, but seems that the overlapping pinky might work in making both hands as one (like in a golf grip?).

Once again, thanks guys for your help. Appreciated it.

[Matt Griffin]

How loose? So loose you think the gun is going to flip out of your hands, in my experience with various Glocks. Don't give up on it, changing to freestyle took a while for me, too, and the biggest problem I see at local shoots is the weak hand breaking loose. Concentrate on getting as much flesh into contact with the grip panel as possible with the weak hand, you need that friction to make the weak hand follow along in recoil.

H.

[Flexmoney]

All that said, has anybody here shooting the C.A.R System?

No.

[Flexmoney]

Thanks Flex. I did try to get the weak hand grip harder, but once it exceeds a level, it tends to shake (weak muscle I guess?).

No...grip LESS with the strong hand (which you'll struggle with at the very moment that you pull the trigger).

[bkeeler]

All that said, has anybody here shooting the C.A.R System? I haven't personally tried it, but seems that the overlapping pinky might work in making both hands as one (like in a golf grip?).

No!

BK

[Kaizer]

Thanks for the input guys... Will report back tomorr ow. Woohoo... Range time!

[JimmyZip]

The part that has helped me the most in getting the thumbs forward grip to work (so far, I too am coming from Weaver) is to make sure the heel of your left palm is in contact with the left grip panel. It is that contact that I look for or feel for as my hands come together on presentation. At that point my left fingers go around the palm and grip the gun.

Watch your sights as you grip this way. I have noticed considerably less movement while dryfiring and a more consistent track during recoil. An older guy saw me doing this yesterday on the range. He asked why I was practicing what I was and about my grip/stance. Since that has been my goal and focus as of late I told him what I knew and he tried it immediately with his cool looking German WWII pistol. (Luger I think) He said he couldn't for the life of him see how else he had been doing it. (This has been my feeling even after only a couple of weeks. It just begins to feel right rather quickly)

So while I sometimes, decreasingly so though, find the Weaver trying to rear it's ugly head, it is going and the thumbs forward is the way as far as I can see now. Sights track better, pulling shots is rare now, and I can focus on shooting now as a result. I am finding my real work is just starting.

[Duane Thomas]

All that said, has anybody here shooting the C.A.R System?

I'm aware of it, but I've never actually tried it. Some things are so innately goofy you just take one look at them and say, "You have GOT to be kidding me."

[Duane Thomas]

I am finding my real work is just starting.

The first steps down the Path are a wonderful time. Enjoy them while they're happening, because I guarantee there will come a time when you look back on these days with immense fondness.

[gunnut1]

Get the book "How to Become a Master Handgunner". Amazon has it. From experiance after reading the book. I have had bad problem of thumbing the gun for years. I am a lefty so all of my shots would end up in the lower right hand corner of the target. I read the book, applied his technique and now, even though I have to work on several more things, I hit the target just a little high and to the right of the x ring. And my grouping has improved about 100 %.

I hghly recommend this book.

Edited December 6, 2008 by gunnut1

[Chris iliff]

Flex is right on for you. I am also RH/LE dominant and Flex's advice rings true for me. Don't tilt your head. Just shift the gun to that eye and dryfire it until it is natural. Welcome to the best sport in the world.

[SRT Driver]

Grip as hard as you can with your weak hand. When it starts to shake, back it off until it stops and that should be about the right weak hand grip pressure.

Shoot a few shots and see where they go.

Then do the same with your weak hand until the shaking stops and relax your strong hand some. Shoot a few shots and see which is more consistent.

[SharonAnne9x23]

Kaiser, have you read Beyond Fundamentals? It has a great section on cross dominance and pistol shooting. In case you did not know, Brian AND Robbie are both cross dominant. Brian is a naturally right handed with a dominant left eye. Robbie is a naturally left handed with a dominant right eye. Each found a solution but they are opposites.

[Duane Thomas]

Brian AND Robbie are both cross dominant.

So is Dave Sevigny - right hand, left eye. So am I, for that matter. It ain't exactly an insurmountable problem.

[Kaizer]

Hi guys, thanks for the input. Really appreciated it.

Too bad I haven't got a chance to 'recheck' my new found methods from here.

Will report back once I got some more range time on hand.

Sharon, nope. Have not read it yet.

[Duane Thomas]

Will report back once I got some more range time on hand.

Cool. Gives us something to look forward to.

[Kaizer]

Hi guys, finally got to shoot some lead and some dry firing.

Manage to solve the 'jumping gun' issue after some alterations to the grip. Thanks guys.

Related to cross dominance, after some practice it does get better. On closer range sight acquisition is getting faster, not so for those in the distance of 20m and above though. Guess I need mooooooooooooooooore practice.

Appreciated all those that has helped. Thanks again.

[JimmyZip]

Kaiser,

I went out and shot our local IPSC match Sunday, and here's what I noticed about grip. When I'm having trouble hitting consistently, I can almost always trace it to my grip. I was shooting a 22 round stage with a group of steel, some close paper, then some far steel. I had two misses on the first group of steel. As I was engaging the close paper, I thought GRIP, FEEL FOR PROPER GRIP. When I came to engage the last group of steel, I had no misses. I even had only one C on the paper. It was almost as if as I thought of it, my hits improved.

For me. I can't tell you exactlly why, but thinking and feeling my grip as I shoot calms me and makes my accuracy improve. If I concentrate on the sights I shoot mediocre accuracy. If I just feel for my grip and let my eyes just do their thing without really stressing but rather just letting it happen, the gun tracks better, the accuracy improves. Thinking isn't really the term I can use to describe what is happening with the grip. Feeling is more accurate.

I hope I didn't confuse you as I am rather new to this in many ways.

JZ