TheOtherErik Posted August 16, 2003 Author Share Posted August 16, 2003 My stage for the Bay Bridge Charity Classic is "Xmas Delivery" I thought you were gonna have some Iraqi terrorist theme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuberryCJB Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 As president of the Central California Pistol League in Fresno, I'm pleased that folks found our windmill targets challenging. In hindsight we way over-built the windmill. It takes about 6 people to move and weighs about 700 pounds. However, it has enough steel plating to protect the drive system from almost anything anybody can hand carry and shoot. (The armor plating around the motor is 1/2" thick.) We built it with both belt and chain drive. The targets are adjustable to make them appear in a staggered pattern or simultaneously. We built a window wall to go infront of the windmill so the shooter can not see the targets coming. I think it could be a whole lot more challenging if we didn't have to make it single stack friendly. One thing we did notice is that many of the shooters "followed" the targets and shot the no-shoots that were around the windows. Even though some of the shooters made reference to my heritage, I believe everyone really enjoyed shooting the stage. Thanks ... Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 The port exposure is a little too difficult for the windmill, or any swinger. If you have to have hardcover in front of the rotating axis, exposing the targets around the side of a wall would be more to my liking. Chuck, we miss your match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahana Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Chuck, Welcome to the forum........... I haven't been down your way this year. I shot a few of your matches the previuos year and always enjoyed them. You guys put on a good match, keep up the good work and if I am down that way again I will be sure to stop by. So you guys built your own ? If I recall it was an electric motor wih the shaft driving the windmill............ T.O.E. have you thought about having one fabricated locally ? ? laters, greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuberryCJB Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Yes, the windmill is run by an electric motor with an adjustable belt system, (that allows us to change the speed from very slow, easy to get two rounds per target per exposure, to very very fast, tough to get even one round per exposure.) The belt system then runs a chain drive. The chain drive gives us the option of "timing" the targets and is more reliable as it is very positive. By using the window ports in front of the windmills, it really does challenge the shooter as it really makes them surprise targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liota Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 The port exposure is a little too difficult for the windmill, or any swinger. If you have to have hardcover in front of the rotating axis, exposing the targets around the side of a wall would be more to my liking.Chuck, we miss your match. Erik, To the contrary, with the windmill the port works better. I've shot them through a port, over a wall and from behind a wall. The last was just a week ago at the Texas State Limited Championship. They work best when you can only see one target at a time. BTW I got all my hits, AC AC. Liota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherErik Posted September 20, 2003 Author Share Posted September 20, 2003 Update on the windmill situation. Finally ended up buying Robert Porter's windmill. He was good to deal with and responded to my e-mails promptly. As far as the product I give it a 7 out of 10. The windmill was constructed out of square and rectangle tubing. The welded joints were decient with very little splatter. My two biggest complaints where the with the base and the pole. The base was "H" shaped which was great but here were no holes in it for stakes to secure it to the ground. Next the upright. To save on shipping he used two 2' secions of 1'' square with a 1.5" square sleve about 6'' joining the two and secured by two cariage blolts. The windmill worked fine like this but it was very wobbly. I tried peening the tubes togeher like he sugeseted. but still ended up being unstable. If you have limited space its great because it can be broken down. I wanted a more solid piece so I replaced the sectioned upright with a length of 2'' square tubing and welded it to the base. Supplied with the windmill were two weights, 1lb and 5lb. The 5lb was the motor weight and was wound up on a pulley on the main center shaft. The 1lb weight was the starter weight and was looped around one of the target sticks. Prop the windmill up with an activator stick and your ready to go. Pull the activator stick out and vrooom. The windmill rotates with the starter weight and drops off at the bottom and the motor weight unwinds and keeps it going. you get about 20 or so revolutions before the motor weight is complelty unwound. It was however a little slow for my taste and am still experimenting with different weights. 10lb motor and a 5lb startder get it going super fast. With its origonal speed a C class shooter can easily get two shots per target as they go by. The darn thing works good but takes a bit of time to set up. It could possibly slow stage down. Im gonna try it at our match next weekend and will probably use a popper to activate it. I'll let you know how it turns out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 It was however a little slow for my taste and am still experimenting with different weights. 10lb motor and a 5lb startder get it going super fast. [Mr. Garrison Voice]You go to hell! You go to hell and die! With its origonal speed a C class shooter can easily get two shots per target as they go by. Perfect! Keep it like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherErik Posted September 23, 2003 Author Share Posted September 23, 2003 With its origonal speed a C class shooter can easily get two shots per target as they go by. Perfect! Keep it like that. THen it woulden't be a good challenge for a soooper-doooper like you.... you gona be there for the maiden voyage this weekend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 The challenge to the upper classes is points and time, whereas the challenge for the others may just be to get hits on paper, any hits, however slow. you gona be there for the maiden voyage this weekend? Yeah I'll have to bring my not-quite-sighted-in Limited gun and have an errant shot take out the mechanism. The windmills (propellers?) I shot at the Crazy Croc were easy and hard. The one activated long before I got to it was no problem to get two good hits it was going so slowly. The one I engaged immediately after activation required one shot per pass it was going so fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 I just watched the episode of American Shooter where they showed guys shooting at "The Mover." The Mover, which I have never shot at but will all too soon, doesn't seem to be all that hard to hit. The challenge lies in the X count which is what seperates the big dogs from the masses. -ld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherErik Posted October 27, 2003 Author Share Posted October 27, 2003 The windmill survived the real test. 75 shooters over two days! Not a single hickup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liota Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Erik, You might want to contact Coleman Gun Club. They might be able to put you in touch with Dan Warren, original designer. He isn't interested in making any windmills for profit, but he might have some suggestions for keeping it stable and improving the performance. His windmill is quick. It is the only target array where spray and pray is nearly a viable option. Liota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPSCDRL Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 One of our local match directors is a pretty handy guy with a welder. He fabricated a pair of "windmill" target holders for his matches after seeing something similar at the nationals. His version is powered by a bungee cord. There are two opposed target holders hidden behind a 2X8 foot wall. The target holders are well balanced and mounted to a sturdy bearing. A prop rod holds the targets hidden behind the wall with tension applied on one side from the rubber cord. An activating steel pulls the prop rod and the targets start spinning and stay spinning for quite a while. Last month he mounted no-shoots on one end of each and placed them side by side. Fun but challenging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorch Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 Hi I would Like to introduce myself my name is Robert Porter and I am the person making and selling the Texas windmill, The purpose of the is post is to clear up a few inaccuracies. That have been posted here by folks that don’t have all the facts, and only know when he saw the first windmill, since this person does not shoot with us locally, They Live over 200 Miles from my home and have Never talked to ME about this subject, so they only know what they hear around and we all know how gossip goes. The first and foremost is that I DID NOT & WOULD NOT STEAL THIS DESIGN FROM ANYBODY.. I had one of the Prototypes for the texas windmill done LONG before Dan had his built for the 4-H match (fact I was shocked when I saw his) I will give Dan some credit for the “motor” of the design of the windmill. My motor design is an adaptation of his. There are several major draw backs to Dan's design (in my opinion, like the speed it turns) which I had to fix, but the basic motor idea was good. The windmill itself was all ready done WAY BEFORE THIS TIME and we had experimented with several “motors” such as spring and bungee cords and alike. I have several folks in this area that had seen this before the Dan’s match. About the article: It was asked for by Robin Taylor of front sight and was in no way “Self Serving” Thank You Alex ! The article was only a portion of another article about our Lone Star match and they did not run any of that article except for the part about the windmill. To address the pole Issue: Yes there is two -2’ section to hold it up this was done purely to save money for the person purchasing it on shipping. The cost for a larger box to put a 4 foot pole in was quit a bit more for the box and the shipping. But the wobble does not effect the windmill operation. (personally I don't like the wobble myself) Either welding the poles together or replacing the pole at a cost of about $4.00 will satisfy this.. rather then $12.00 for the larger box & shipping The Instruction Say to Drill holes in the stand if you want it to be “more” secure and drive spikes into the ground, but it works without the spike. ( and if it is windy enough you “Have to” Nail it down, I would not use it, the Wind does effect the windmill) The last thing I will say is, I don’t care who gets credit for the design,(Dan Had his in a major match before me) just don’t insult my integrity by saying I “took” it, when you really don’t know .There is nothing really new under the sun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherErik Posted October 30, 2003 Author Share Posted October 30, 2003 Robert, Everyone at the Bay Bridge match got a kick out of the windmill. 75 people ran the stage and not a single malfunction. Not that it needs the stakes to hold it down in the wind, however it should have holes in it so that it can be staked so it can't get indavertanly moved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakal Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 I call them like I see them, Robert. It was a very nice self-serving advertisement article You told everyone (and yes, I was there, RO'ing as usual) at the 4H match that Dan's was the first "windmill" you ever saw...and yet, mysteriously, later you said that you 'came up with the idea' in a cafe years earlier. Hey, you make a good product, knock off the fabricated backstory and live with your success. Hell, I was there..."200 miles" indeed. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorch Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 Alex You seem to remember stuff the way you want to... I NEVER EVER said it was the first one I saw. (that match Was Two Years ago or longer, Really good memory about something I said I don't pay that much attention to what you say) Me and Bill Perry Sr. talked about this windmill just about a year after I started Shooting (5 years ago) and set down and drew it up. Took about a year before I had time to build 90% of one. but I could not get it to work consistently with spring and Cords. Then about three and half years ago Robert Kelly and I talked about spinning target and I told him I already had something going on that but the "motor" was a problem. any body that really knows me knows I am always thinking up Werid Idea for stages since I set one or two month for three years now. You have never talked to me about this and you don't know the whole story and apparently don't want to, so in your mind Dan made the first one, Great! Big Deal! Just don't Spread around that I "took" the Design in a public form, when you don't have any idea when or whats going on since you only run into me once or twice a year. My Apologies to the other folks reading this forum. This is not what it was set up for, I will not post anything further on this. My conscious is clear and I won't change the one person mind here. Again I apologize to the other readers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorch Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 Hey Erik Good Point about spiking the windmill down to keep it in one spot for a major Match. I agree there should be holes in the stand. Here is why there is none when shipped. If for your major match you drill four holes in the stand It will take you about 5 minutes to drill tops (including getting everything out and putting it all away) if I drill the holes (100 -150 holes) that 500 -750 minutes and I have to justify that in the cost. So to keep the cost reasonable I quit Fully assembling them and drilling holes in the stand and cut back on what I did vs. what the customer did. Most of this was done to meet tight deadlines on building and shipping (built on a per order basis in my spare time) and to keep cost down ( I had to increase the price later because materials went up) Most of my friends told me I should have started selling them at $125.00 to $150.00. ( at 125.00 the stand would Definitely have holes drilled) so Just like most of the stuff you buy at Wal mart today there is a little assembly and this explained when ordering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Kelly Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 For the record I did talk to Robert Porter about a spinning target. It was in the first half of 2000. I drew it out on a piece of paper and thought I came up with the best prop design ever. Robert then told me of his spinner and the problems he was having to make it consistant. Well I have learned that most things thought of by a man have been thought of by other men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakal Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 If it was just me, that would be one thing. But when the usual suspects (the ROs and match staff of not one, not two, but all three different clubs who helped with the 4H match) all remember Robert being "amazed" at the "innovative new windmill" (his words) that debuted at the Coleman 4H match... ...and then the same usual suspects remember being amazed at Robert's self-promoting shameless article in the Front Sight... Well, this isn't rocket science. And hell, I was there. The concept is nothing new...I shot a similar two-target array at a match in Germany a decade ago...but the design Robert shamlessly copied was first built by someone else and he clings to a threadbare story fabricated of whole cloth instead of just admitting it and getting on with the business of selling a really neat target array for a reasonable price. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 admin mode: I think we get the picture from both view-points. If you guys want to debate the issue further, please take it off the boards. ...now back to your regular shooting program Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorch Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 Wrong Match Alex That was the Year after and it was not the windmill it was the Paddlewheel that Dan designed and built and it was Inovative. You were not on my squad or ROing the first year. I have the Match on video tape. It's not who did it first, it is that you say I "Took" dan design.. and you just admitted you shot one years earlier so I guess dan "took" That? You just made my claim for me, that somebody actually though this up before you seen dan's. Not only me but somebody in Germany. You got nothing, so give it up. I can and did backed up my story! One Last thing Iam NOT running for SC Either.... geeessss.. Gossip .. to bad it is never right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 Our club in Buffalo TX has a "Star" and it sure is a hoot to shoot - if your "On". And a real PITA if your "Off" I seem to have a lot better luck with my Open blaster than with iron sights. I have yet to shoot it at any real distance yet but I bet it gets really interesting at increased yardages. I'm glad we made the investment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakal Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 Try the Star with a shotgun... And try two Stars side by side... And then try two Stars side by side (with one two feet or so behind the other) so that the plates overlap... (makes your eyes ache)... If your club doesn't have the .22 plates and springs, have them pick up a set and try a .22 side match. We raised 500 bucks with two stars running "Man on Man" with a buyback option... Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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