CZ SP-01 SHADOW: how to reduce trigger travel ....

[Stefano]

Hi Guys,

being in "off-season" this is the perfect-moment for doing experimentations and then ...

Last sunday I've extensively tested a new Shadow, and having a large experience with Tanfoglio models (T95F, Stock Custom, Stock II ...) the very-first difference I've noticed on the CZ is the very long trigger-pull-travel ….

NOTE: I'm not talking about travel AFTER the break, but just getting to the break, starting in DA.

Now I ask myself: how is it possible to reduce it ??

I've looked all around in the web, serching for a good tip to solve this “problem” (even if I know this is almost typical for CZ models…) but I've found nothing.

I remenber I've heard somewhere (but I'm not sure about this: I can be wrong ..…) that a possible solution it could be shimming a particular point on the disconnector, or on the ejector cage: anyway - I repeat -–it's only a rumour”that I've heard on the ranges... …

The only tip I've found that sounds similar, is on CZForum:

“....You may bend the disconnect bar slightly forward to adjust where the trigger "breaks" during the pull. It helps if you bevel the end of the disconnect where the trigger bar contacts against it and begins it's downward travel, or you may end up with more stacking than you have. Once you've got it where you want, I'd suggest adding a trigger stop as well, or the serrations on the trigger will make your finger pay once the gun has fired, after 150 rounds or so my (already calloused) finger was bleeding from slamming back into the grip time and time again. The stop ended the torture. Hope this helps…....”

What do you think about ?

Does anybody have an idea about “how to deal” with CZ's trigger travel ?

Thanks in advance

Stefano

Edited November 20, 2008 by Stefano

[BlackSabbath]

I have a new CZ Shadow, as well. I wondered about the same thing in single action mode, the double action doesn't bother me as I shoot lots of ICORE revolver. It just seems such a long time to the actual breaking point of the shot in single. My gun was done in the CZ Custom shop. There's almost no creep in the trigger once it's there...it's super nice...it's just getting to that point that seems to take forever.

I'm coming off shooting Vanek trigger in a G-17 that was awsome, so I may have to just get used to this different platform.

Like Stefano says, any ideas?

[double_pedro]

Looking from above, if you remove the ejector cage, you'll see that the disconnector (attached to the hammer) has a leg that slips through the trigger bar. The contact between the disconnector leg and the trigger bar determines how far forward the trigger goes with the hammer in a given position (i.e. hammer down or cocked). I think you are talking about the take-up in DA and SA - which is the travel before the engagement points of the trigger bar contact the disconnector or the sear.

You may be able to shim the contact between the disconnector leg and the trigger bar (e.g. by adding a spot weld bead) to reduce the take-up. However, you'll need to be sure there is enough excess (i.e. leave a bit of take-up) to allow the trigger to reset for both DA and SA. If you then do trigger work or change hammers or sears, you may have to re-adjust the amount of shim.

[Esa1195]

Stefano,

CZ85 Combat trigger has after-travel adjustment screw.

It's OFM option part and therefore ok for IPSC Production also.

Edited November 20, 2008 by Esa1195

[Stefano]

Looking from above, if you remove the ejector cage, you'll see that the disconnector (attached to the hammer) has a leg that slips through the trigger bar. The contact between the disconnector leg and the trigger bar determines how far forward the trigger goes with the hammer in a given position (i.e. hammer down or cocked). I think you are talking about the take-up in DA and SA - which is the travel before the engagement points of the trigger bar contact the disconnector or the sear.

You may be able to shim the contact between the disconnector leg and the trigger bar (e.g. by adding a spot weld bead) to reduce the take-up. However, you'll need to be sure there is enough excess (i.e. leave a bit of take-up) to allow the trigger to reset for both DA and SA. If you then do trigger work or change hammers or sears, you may have to re-adjust the amount of shim.

Thank you so much DP:

that's exactly what I was looking for !!!

[Stefano]

Stefano,

CZ85 Combat trigger has after-travel adjustment screw.

It's OFM option part and therefore ok for IPSC Production also.

Esa,

I mean (as clarified by DP) the take-up of the trigger, not the over-travel !

Anyway thanks for your interest in my question.

[double_pedro]

Looking from above, if you remove the ejector cage, you'll see that the disconnector (attached to the hammer) has a leg that slips through the trigger bar. The contact between the disconnector leg and the trigger bar determines how far forward the trigger goes with the hammer in a given position (i.e. hammer down or cocked). I think you are talking about the take-up in DA and SA - which is the travel before the engagement points of the trigger bar contact the disconnector or the sear.

You may be able to shim the contact between the disconnector leg and the trigger bar (e.g. by adding a spot weld bead) to reduce the take-up. However, you'll need to be sure there is enough excess (i.e. leave a bit of take-up) to allow the trigger to reset for both DA and SA. If you then do trigger work or change hammers or sears, you may have to re-adjust the amount of shim.

Thank you so much DP:

that's exactly what I was looking for !!!

Stefano - I haven't actually done this, but have thought about it and then decided it probably wasn't worth the effort unless you are having issues reaching the trigger in DA. On my SP01's, there is about 3/16" of take-up at the tip of the trigger in DA and about twice that amount in SA. You'll only be able to remove the smaller of the two amounts and still have everything work. So, at best, you'll be able to remove almost all of the DA take-up (moving the starting point of the DA pull 3/16" closer) but you'll still have about 3/16" of take-up in SA. Unless you really slap the trigger in SA, the take-up shouldn't be an issue if you just release the trigger past the reset point between shots.

If you do try this, it looks like it would be better to add material to the inside of the trigger bar because there is more or less a single point of contact there (easy to build up by spot welding a little weld bead). The corresponding contact on the disconnector is a larger area and if this area ends up uneven, it may bind or catch during the slide's cycle which probably won't be good.

Edited November 20, 2008 by double_pedro

[Esa1195]

Esa,

I mean (as clarified by DP) the take-up of the trigger, not the over-travel !

Anyway thanks for your interest in my question.

50% chance and I almost got it at the first read

[eerw]

DP..

so the material or shim is applied to the vertical face of the disconnector or trigger bar?? so the effect is that the disconnector travels to the same point, but the trigger bar and trigger only go to a point that is further back than originally??

I think I understand what you are saying..

any guess on how much material needs to be added??

[Stefano]

DP..

so the material or shim is applied to the vertical face of the disconnector or trigger bar?? so the effect is that the disconnector travels to the same point, but the trigger bar and trigger only go to a point that is further back than originally??

I think I understand what you are saying..

any guess on how much material needs to be added??

EERW,

I think it would be good (as DS says) just a spot welding: then a little of polishing/finishing and try.

Most probably it's easied to add material, and the remove it little-by-little, instead of add and then add again ...

This is the tecnique I've heard about, used by an italian (good) pistolmith with good knowledge of CZs.

[Stefano]

Stefano - I haven't actually done this, but have thought about it and then decided it probably wasn't worth the effort unless you are having issues reaching the trigger in DA. On my SP01's, there is about 3/16" of take-up at the tip of the trigger in DA and about twice that amount in SA. You'll only be able to remove the smaller of the two amounts and still have everything work. So, at best, you'll be able to remove almost all of the DA take-up (moving the starting point of the DA pull 3/16" closer) but you'll still have about 3/16" of take-up in SA. Unless you really slap the trigger in SA, the take-up shouldn't be an issue if you just release the trigger past the reset point between shots.

If you do try this, it looks like it would be better to add material to the inside of the trigger bar because there is more or less a single point of contact there (easy to build up by spot welding a little weld bead). The corresponding contact on the disconnector is a larger area and if this area ends up uneven, it may bind or catch during the slide's cycle which probably won't be good.

Thanks again DP:

for sure you're the "CZ Authority" ...

[ChuckS]

Stefano,

Are you allowed to do this sort of mod in IPSC?

Just curious,

Chuck

PS: To repeat Stuart's question: disconnector or trigger bar?

PPS: Stuart, I am thinking that some shim stock and super glue experiments are in order A set screw may be a possibility vice welding?

[double_pedro]

DP..

so the material or shim is applied to the vertical face of the disconnector or trigger bar?? so the effect is that the disconnector travels to the same point, but the trigger bar and trigger only go to a point that is further back than originally??

I think I understand what you are saying..

any guess on how much material needs to be added??

eerw - I think you can do this by adding to either the disconnector or the trigger bar. There are pro's and con's with each.

Initially I was leaning towards spot welding a small bead (about 1/8" thick) on the inside of the trigger bar where the disconnector leg makes contact. That area already comes to a sort of round point. If you look on your disconnector leg, you will see the corresponding contact area is about 1/4" long from the way the trigger bar cams down during its travel. A potential drawback from doing it this way is that weld spatter could get on the nearby trigger bar contact surfaces and this could be difficult to clean up.

Alternatively, if you weld to the disconnector leg, you will have less trouble with clean up of weld spatter. However, you will have to run a larger bead (at least the length of the contact area) and then file it flat so the hammer cocks smoothly.

In either case, I'd add more than you need (probably about 1/8" or less is needed) and then file away for fit and function.

Edited November 20, 2008 by double_pedro

[eerw]

DP..thanks...

for me this is a solution without a problem..but seems interesting to try just to see what can be done to fine tune the trigger..thanks for the ideas and information..

[Dalmas]

Looking from above, if you remove the ejector cage, you'll see that the disconnector (attached to the hammer) has a leg that slips through the trigger bar. The contact between the disconnector leg and the trigger bar determines how far forward the trigger goes with the hammer in a given position (i.e. hammer down or cocked). I think you are talking about the take-up in DA and SA - which is the travel before the engagement points of the trigger bar contact the disconnector or the sear.

You may be able to shim the contact between the disconnector leg and the trigger bar (e.g. by adding a spot weld bead) to reduce the take-up. However, you'll need to be sure there is enough excess (i.e. leave a bit of take-up) to allow the trigger to reset for both DA and SA. If you then do trigger work or change hammers or sears, you may have to re-adjust the amount of shim.

Thank you so much DP:

that's exactly what I was looking for !!!

Wouldn't this end you in Open if caught (IPSC)

[ChuckS]

Wouldn't this end you in Open if caught (IPSC)

That's what I was wondering...

[eerw]

only my assumption..but I would think for IPSC..this would be over the top as far as acceptable modifications.

[Stefano]

Stefano,

Are you allowed to do this sort of mod in IPSC?

Just curious,

Chuck

PS: To repeat Stuart's question: disconnector or trigger bar?

PPS: Stuart, I am thinking that some shim stock and super glue experiments are in order A set screw may be a possibility vice welding?

About me this kind of "alterations" aren't allowed in IPSC.

So - as Dalmas says - you really are exposed to the risk of being bumped in OD.

Anyway, I've asked only to satisfy my "tecnical curiosity" about the differencies between Tanfo & CZ triggers ..

Of course, I also know that sometimes ... "curiosity kills the cat ..."