earshot Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Hi all. I got myself a cz 9mm champion last week. It came equipped with a fibre optic front sight and regular LPA rear. First time I shot / own a fibre optic equipped gun. Last night I had some IPSC practicing on our indoor range and it went very, very bad. I've never had so many shots going too high. Shooting relaxed on 25m I get nice A zone hits but when I'm gunning a stage it all goes tits. What's the trick with those fibre optics? Do you set it up so that the dot hits at point of aim or do you still use the top of the sight for that? Another problem I encounter is the difference in lighting on various target-distances; it makes the optic glow bright, very bright, or invisible....makes me believe that a fibre optic sight is not the best solution for indoor shooting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Burtchell Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 (edited) You should still use the top of the front sight. For me the fiber optic is just a tool to aide in transitions. Edited November 12, 2008 by baerburtchell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 LOTS of guys shoot the fiber so that the bullet hits in the center of it at a moderate distance, the best shooters I personally know all do it. With a small fiber the bullet will hit inside the dot at pretty much any common distance. I use the fiber to find the blade, I still use the top edge of the blade and sight in so that my bullet hole is exactly on top of the blade at about 15 yards, at 5 yards POI is about 75% inside the top of the blade and at 30 yards it is a bullet diameter or so over the top of the blade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earshot Posted November 12, 2008 Author Share Posted November 12, 2008 LOTS of guys shoot the fiber so that the bullet hits in the center of it at a moderate distance, the best shooters I personally know all do it. With a small fiber the bullet will hit inside the dot at pretty much any common distance. I use the fiber to find the blade, I still use the top edge of the blade and sight in so that my bullet hole is exactly on top of the blade at about 15 yards, at 5 yards POI is about 75% inside the top of the blade and at 30 yards it is a bullet diameter or so over the top of the blade. Thanks for the reply. Well, I have been thinking very hard about what has gone wrong. The theory I have is that the fibre FS draws so much attention to itself that I did not properly level the front with the rear. Lately my capability of doing a quick and proper focusshift with my right eye has deteriorated drastically. Suffering from cross-dominant eye-sight ain't helping either. If I cannot get better results than a C-More might be a last resort and that would suck because I'm a real stockgun fan... Anyway, tonight Ill do some 25 meters accuracy tests to check if the gun is not causing these Unidentied Flyers I will set the gun up to hit the point of aim with the top of the FS as mentioned above. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike cyrwus Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 think "color, corner" use the color of the FO to acquire the front blade, then move to the top corners to line everything up. If you practice this enough, youll eventually wont think about it, youll just do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Try changing color of fiber too. If you have shot a C-More much I would strongly recommend you do not use a red/orange fiber, try a green instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 (edited) LOTS of guys shoot the fiber so that the bullet hits in the center of it at a moderate distance, the best shooters I personally know all do it. With a small fiber the bullet will hit inside the dot at pretty much any common distance. I use the fiber to find the blade, I still use the top edge of the blade and sight in so that my bullet hole is exactly on top of the blade at about 15 yards, at 5 yards POI is about 75% inside the top of the blade and at 30 yards it is a bullet diameter or so over the top of the blade. That's interesting what those good shooters told you. Unlike a dot sight where the whole target is visible, wouldn't having the POI on the dot itself mean that the POA/POI would not be a visible part of the sight picture? I'd think that the FS blade and the RS leaf would block a lot of useful information. FWIW, I set up my iron sights like you do, with the FO itself pulled into the channel to make a small bright dot on an otherwise classic post and notch sight picture (or I go the easier way and use a Brazos microdot). Edited November 12, 2008 by kevin c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 I thought so too Kevin, and asked why. I think the big difference between me and those shooters is those guys shoot a LOT, are extremely comfortable with it and they run VERY narrow (.070") front sights with little or no sight above or around the fiber, the sight picture doesn't look anything like a stock Dawson front or your Brazos sight. The front sight I am talking about should be available commercially soon, I'll get one and provide info when it becomes available. I think I can transition to it pretty easily, I have shot enough open to be comfortable with the bullet hitting inside the dot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Well, I have been thinking very hard about what has gone wrong. The theory I have is that the fibre FS draws so much attention to itself that I did not properly level the front with the rear. That's exactly it; the "fiber trap." The fiber optic is so easy to see, you don't have to think about it or even consciously look for it. The trick is to just look for/line up the blade itself, and while you are doing that the fiber will be asssiting you without you even being aware of it. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 The "fiber trap". Sounds like a perfect name for a common issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 HSMITH: I have experimented with monovision focus with the aiming eye on the FS, but without blocking out the target focus in the nonaiming eye. This gives me a sharp dot (from the former) superimposed over a ghost image of the target (from the latter) - sort of what an Open shooter might see, but the difference being that the "dot" is not where the bullet is going to hit (or right above it, with my current set up) unless the post is square in the notch. I didn't think it precise enough for far targets. Interesting that I first started with 0.070" FO FS's for my Para Limited guns. Maybe I was driifting in the same direction as your friends, though I doubt I am at their level. I'm shooting Production Glocks now, and don't think there are any aftermarket sights for them that are comparably narrow. kc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earshot Posted November 13, 2008 Author Share Posted November 13, 2008 I did some shooting from 25meters on a typical bullseye target completely ignoring the fibre. I also 'held' the FS aligned Bullseye-style (meaning the top of the FS in the white below the black). All the loads I tried ended up in the black; one load (123 Fiochi , federal spp, 4.0 VV N320) shot very soft and got me a nice group....nothing wrong with gun. I did notice that it's VERY difficult to get a focus on my rear sight when aligning the top of the FS; I could not see the serrations until I fully stretched out my arms. I guess with 44 yrs of age my right eye starts to deteriorate for seeing close-up (vision was tested a week ago and was OK ; also I can easily see a 9mm bullethole in a fresh target from 25m)). I'm not happy at all. So, probably tonight I'm taking the CZ to my gunsmith and have a C-more attached. I'm really pissed...ending up shooting Open Class (*spits on the ground* .... ) The thing is that I'm sure I'm gonna run into a new problem: shooting a C-more dot with cross-dominance!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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