lugnut Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 (edited) I was running a shooter thru a stage today- it involved moving from right to left towards cover. The cover was a wall that ran downrange- almost perpendicular to the range 180 line (we have a 180 rule). Once at cover you had to engage targets on the other side. The targets were spread fairly wide and not too deep... but no where near the 180. The shooter engaged some of the targets fine but when he started to reload he tilted the muzzle close to the 180 so a yelled "muzzle" but I quickly had to yell "stop" as he continued to point the muzzle quite a bit uprange. I asked the shooter if he realized where his muzzle was and he didn't. I told him he broke the 180 by quite a bit and I had to DQ him. The design of the stage should have been changed to help prevent this safety issue- it won't happen again (not my stage design but we debriefed after) . People were crowding cover so they were already put in a tough situation as they were almost sideways. I know I did the right thing as there was no doubt what happened. It still sucked. The shooter took it well but still didn't think he broke the 180 which is sad because it was way past 180. To make things worse I shot like crap today... and I think I'm getting a cold. Ugghh. Edited October 25, 2008 by lugnut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKSNIPER Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Its all about safety. You did what you did to keep the other competitors safe and they appreciated it. This guy when he has had a chance to reflect on it will probably realize he DID break the 180....and if you made a bad call? If you RO SO enough you WILL eventually make a bad call. Just like refereeing in any sport....do it enough and you will eventually make a whoopsie. As long as you di it while trying to keep the rest of us safe...you're acting the way you should. Put it behind you and drive on. JK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 RO's/SO's dont "Give" someone a DQ or other penalty. The shooter commits an infraction that by rule warrants a DQ or penalty. Not scoring the match accurately isnt giving the shooter a break it is cheating all the other shooters that followed the rules. So dont sweat it you are doing the job all the shooters expect you to do and doing the best you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 RO's/SO's dont "Give" someone a DQ or other penalty. The shooter commits an infraction that by rule warrants a DQ or penalty. Not scoring the match accurately isnt giving the shooter a break it is cheating all the other shooters that followed the rules. So dont sweat it you are doing the job all the shooters expect you to do and doing the best you can. This says it pretty well..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSabbath Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Shooters earn a DQ, but it never feels good to award it. It doesn't get any easier as the years go by either, especially if it's a new shooter. That's always the worst feeling. March on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bell Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 It is the suck to have to do it, but I've come to believe it is best for all involved to be consistent on these calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 RO's/SO's dont "Give" someone a DQ or other penalty. The shooter commits an infraction that by rule warrants a DQ or penalty. Not scoring the match accurately isnt giving the shooter a break it is cheating all the other shooters that followed the rules. So dont sweat it you are doing the job all the shooters expect you to do and doing the best you can. Well stated. I hate it when a shooter DQs when I am running him/her but I would hate it more if I did not do it and it became a bad habit for the shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I had to D.Q. one of my best friends, and main sponsor at a very major match. The stage design sucked and it was his last stage, but I had already had to D.Q. two other folks so it had to be done ( I felt like crap about the other two also, but your good amigo and sponsor...welll it was really devastating to me) Well he has forgiven me and soon the divit in my head will be healed so all will be well in the end! You did right but it really SUCKS!!! KurtM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 You don't issue a DQ... you simply inform the shooter that they DQed themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I have made one shooter aware that they have DQ'ed, and it was before I had an RO certification. I was in a squad where I was one of the more experienced shooters, the only certified RO on the squad was on deck so I take the timer. Poor guy, one of the NICEST guys you will ever shoot with, shooting with his elderly father, first stage has a prop tossing/monkey motion/complete BS starting position activity that is just GAY and he managed to knock his loaded gun out of the holster complying with the start as written. Never even fired a shot. Being the super guy he is he stayed and helped out the rest of the match. I'd have been tempted to just bail on that one, I really hate it when a lack of creativity from the stage designers has people doing stupid things to trip them up instead of finding out how well they can shoot and think concurrently. I was a lot more upset at the circumstances and the result than the shooter was. The thing that REALLY pisses me off is I haven't seen that shooter since then, I would hate to think we lost one. I have DQ'ed two times in USPSA so I know what the other side looks like, I earned it, own it and take it with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Something that I learned from BSeevers is that when you issue a DQ to a newer shooter, it is important to debrief them after the fact. Chat with them for a few minutes about what they can do in the future to avoid such a situation, and let them know that sh!t happens. The last thing we need is to disenfranchise those that want to give our sport a chance. The exception is the RARE clown that doesn't belong at the range. I can think of only one situation that this occurred, and although I was at a different stage, this dude needed to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 And FWIW, although I believe that a competitor earns a DQ, 10.3.2 uses the word "issued" when referring to doling out such a call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 (edited) And FWIW, although I believe that a competitor earns a DQ, 10.3.2 uses the word "issued" when referring to doling out such a call Yup, it does, but they need to use terms that are straight forward and easy to understand. It amounts to the same thing, but the way I see it like scoring points. I'm not issuing an A, C or a Mike, I'm recording what the shooter earned. I really don't issue anything, I merely record what the shooter does, If the shooter DQs then I stop them and inform them they have DQed themselves. Edited October 28, 2008 by JThompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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