kurtm Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 I "AM" Kurt Miller...but I'm no Kurt Miller either! I will say this, no matter how you score it, make it the same for everyone and make it known before the match like in oh say your rules and then shoot it. If it is a good match it will fill, if it isn't, it won't. You will never make everyone happy and the folks that don't read the rules will ALWAYS complain. Now where did I put that cool new gun that is sure to make me win? Oh well I guess I can't find it so I will use this here 5 year old pistol and 4 year old rifle, and 10 year old shotgun...but hey they sure could use a bit of refinish and they each could use a new barrel ....AGAIN KURKM..ah...er KurtK....uh...no MirkT, darn it...uh KIRKM, oh you know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benelli Chick Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 It seems that power factor is important for USPSA. It's in their guiding principles and in everything they do. Combining power factors seem to be wrong with that idea. And if I were USPSA, I wouldn't rewrite the 5 rules books used for multigun! No, USPSA scoring is not my favorite, but it's not broken! It just needs to be used by people who understand it. If San Angelo scoring is difficult for the scorekeepers etc, design stages where only one gun is shooting at paper or can receive non-A hits. Changing a shooter's stage from major to minor is a breeze and then the program takes care of those missed points. If you want more than one gun on paper, or you want to have choices on paper, then you need to get a scorekeeper that "gets" San Angelo and RO's that "get it" too. The RO's on the stage can mark the points to be added as they did in San Angelo! Again, Chris, I don't think the scoring is the big problem. I use USPSA at our local matches. They are small, not many targets, very small berms. The points lost with USPSA scoring spread out results a bit. If we gave them the option to only shoot one at each paper when they're that close (even the tiny ones) we wouldn't get hardly any shooting done. I decide on each persons power factor for the stage. We have an all rifle....308 major, .223 minor and I have .308's! We use a lot of steel, so if there's only paper for one stage, it's no choice. Paper for two guns, I usually look at the individual, but I have time to do that! USPSA has it's advantages, especially on short stages with few targets. We try to keep our rounds above 24, but that's few for us! The major-minor thing makes for a challenge in scoring. That's all! If it's a USPSA match, I think you need to do PF for each gun. If it's a USPSA match, you need chrono! (I don't want to work chrono into my matches. Yes! I know you can download .45 etc. but in time plus, I'm not chronoing!) If all the shooters just made the PF they said they would, it would make it A LOT easier for the scorekeepers and some of the delay would be eliminated! Just my $1.27! (I figure with the amount I write and inflation... Better Kurt, Kurk, Kirk, Kirt...???) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 I'm not a 3 gunner, but what the hell, I thought I would throw this 'outside the box' idea in the mix. It might be stupid, but at least it's out there. Why not ratify two different methods of scoring a match under the USPSA rules and let the clubs select which one to use. At least then there is the possibility of gathering everyone under one rule book and start focusing on the things JJ was talking about. I'll go back to my corner now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 I'm not a 3 gunner, but what the hell, I thought I would throw this 'outside the box' idea in the mix. It might be stupid, but at least it's out there. Why not ratify two different methods of scoring a match under the USPSA rules and let the clubs select which one to use. At least then there is the possibility of gathering everyone under one rule book and start focusing on the things JJ was talking about. I'll go back to my corner now. That is the way the rule book currently reads; Time plus is an option for Level I & II & San Angelo is the only one for events like the Nats. I have to believe that the scoring method is not what keeps them apart. In my opinion, it is something else that we do not discuss here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack T Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Boy, where is all the controversy? I booted my little New York girlfriend so now I don't have any drama in my life. USPSA Scoring. If you don't think we have a problem with the USPSA scoring of Multigun/3-Gun, just go to Major Match Results, US Multigun Championships and look at the results. Notice how it is all listed under PISTOL FINALS, PISTOL STAGES. Now as my buddy might say, If you are a graduate of the FBI Academy, you might consider this a Clue!!. Nuff Said. Regards, Jack T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 (edited) USPSA Scoring. If you don't think we have a problem with the USPSA scoring of Multigun/3-Gun, just go to Major Match Results, US Multigun Championships and look at the results. Notice how it is all listed under PISTOL FINALS, PISTOL STAGES. There is no actual software support in ezwinscore for the San Angelo method of scoring multigun; it's a manual process and it is scored as a pistol match in the system, just as the multigun rulebook says it is. Similarly, the uspsa.org major/local match upload and display application doesn't know when it's multigun and when it's not, as (again) it's scored as a pistol match in ezws. The manual San Angelo procedures of scoring multigun in ezws do work (THAT has to shock some folks to hear me say that!); they're just a pain in the ass to implement. The uspsa.org scoring program and web application are working as designed; it's we who are manually extending it to do something for which it was never intended. I'm sure the web app will be appropriately modified whenever we finally get software support for multigun in the system. Edited October 14, 2008 by wgnoyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms. Kitty Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 USPSA Scoring. If you don't think we have a problem with the USPSA scoring of Multigun/3-Gun, just go to Major Match Results, US Multigun Championships and look at the results. Notice how it is all listed under PISTOL FINALS, PISTOL STAGES. There is no actual software support in ezwinscore for the San Angelo method of scoring multigun; it's a manual process and it is scored as a pistol match in the system, just as the multigun rulebook says it is. Similarly, the uspsa.org major/local match upload and display application doesn't know when it's multigun and when it's not, as (again) it's scored as a pistol match in ezws. The manual San Angelo procedures of scoring multigun in ezws do work (THAT has to shock some folks to hear me say that!); they're just a pain in the ass to implement. The uspsa.org scoring program and web application are working as designed; it's we who are manually extending it to do something for which it was never designed. I'm sure the web app will be appropriately modified whenever we finally get software support for multigun in the system. I find it hard to belive with all the technology out there AND all the "IT Techies"...no one can produce or has produced something that is so great in demand for this sport. If no one can step up and design something, perhaps USPSA should pay to have the application made. Anything in the budget for same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recon215 Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 USPSA Scoring. If you don't think we have a problem with the USPSA scoring of Multigun/3-Gun, just go to Major Match Results, US Multigun Championships and look at the results. Notice how it is all listed under PISTOL FINALS, PISTOL STAGES. There is no actual software support in ezwinscore for the San Angelo method of scoring multigun; it's a manual process and it is scored as a pistol match in the system, just as the multigun rulebook says it is. Similarly, the uspsa.org major/local match upload and display application doesn't know when it's multigun and when it's not, as (again) it's scored as a pistol match in ezws. The manual San Angelo procedures of scoring multigun in ezws do work (THAT has to shock some folks to hear me say that!); they're just a pain in the ass to implement. The uspsa.org scoring program and web application are working as designed; it's we who are manually extending it to do something for which it was never designed. I'm sure the web app will be appropriately modified whenever we finally get software support for multigun in the system. I find it hard to belive with all the technology out there AND all the "IT Techies"...no one can produce or has produced something that is so great in demand for this sport. If no one can step up and design something, perhaps USPSA should pay to have the application made. Anything in the budget for same? I nominate Linda for the job! Can't wait to see you both at Benning again this year! And yes, we will be early for registration AGAIN this year Kitty! LOL Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms. Kitty Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 (edited) I agree with you. Linda should sell her scoring talents.... Can't wait to see you at Ft. Benning. Moderator, sorry for the slgiht TD Edited October 14, 2008 by Ms. Kitty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I agree with you. Linda should sell her scoring talents.... Someone actually tried that once. They advertised themselves as professional match scorers! Didn't work, I guess, and they went away... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cksh8me Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 (edited) Benelli Chick and LChico pretty much summed up what's wrong with the scoreing. There were some others that had some good input but most everything else is just rehashed getting nowhere noise. I like to know how I did on a stage. I'm not going to win anything but my friends and I compete against each other. You cannot do that with USPSA scoring. Not adding a bunch of time with USPSA scoreing the stage means you can have a few more shots and still get the stage done in good time. At Reno I watched a couple of shooters maybe top 20 guys with a calculator before shooting the stage trying to figure out if they dropped a point here and there would it be faster. While much better shooters than I they fell into the goober catagory in my book. We're there to shoot not be CPA's. At non USPSA matches no major/minor and I have more fun there than at the National. I guess if you want my money change the scoring and you'll have a better chance of getting mine. Edited October 15, 2008 by cksh8me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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