DougCarden Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 I am tenatively cleared for the IRC next year now that the PRO AM was moved. My trusty stock 8 shooter just got a check up and is ready to roll. I am really happy with my 38 short colt for anything up to 35yds, but I know that I need some accurate ammo at 50 for the standards. I have read for years about people using the Billy 160LRN bullets, and I am going to order some in for testing. I also have a buttload of 148 DEWC loaded up that shoot really well as well....... Do I need an accurate load that speedloads well, or just some really accurate stuff for the long stuff and switch over to the other stuff for the close up targets? Loads and any and all advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.carden Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 just some really accurate stuff for the long stuff and switch over to the other stuff for the close up targets?Loads and any and all advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, DougC Thats the best choice......Adjust elevation as needed for the 50yd'r. I use the Armscor 158's with N320. My gun loves this combo.... Make it happen Cuz,.... .....Thats the "make or break" stage..... DanBagger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom E Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Anbody using Precision's 9mm bullets in a 627-5? Or are they just too small? Was wondering if being swaged they were soft enough to obdurate and shoot well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 I am tenatively cleared for the IRC next year now that the PRO AM was moved. My trusty stock 8 shooter just got a check up and is ready to roll. Doug, are you planning to shoot in Limited Division at the IRC? Or are you going to run your "Starter Pistol on Steroids" in Open? (I'd sure like to go shoot that match again.) I'm not going to be much help on loads at this point, since my only real experience on the F&N was shot at the IRC in '07, which I shot with a 625. I shot a major-PF 185-gr. cast SWC on the long-range stuff, since there's no need to reload fast, and used the Berry's 185-gr. HBRN bullet for everything else. By happy coincidence, my long-range ammo hit where it pointed at 50 yards without re-adjusting sights on the line. (For those who don't know, it's legal at the IRC to use two different loads during the match, as long as both pass chronograph. It's also legal to adjust sights. It is not legal to use two different guns.) Running a 6-shooter at the IRC was fun, but next time I'll probably shoot an 8-rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted October 1, 2008 Author Share Posted October 1, 2008 Nah, I am gonna shoot the stock gun, and run the short colts in it like always. I am not an open shooter......yet...... I have always had good luck with 148 DEWC and they shoot well, but There is always better mousetraps out there as well.....Keep em coming, guys! TomE, if they are the coated bullets I would gather that they will not shoot well past 25yds due to the diameter.....356ish? a .357-.358 would be better. Another option is the .356 150JRN from Zero.......I do like them, but dont like the price...... Thanks, DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmax Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Hi Doug, I use Bear Creek 158gr RN loaded on top of 3.3 gr Clays in 38 Long Colt brass. I shot a 27 at this years IRC with that load and had excellent hits at 50 yards but lost a bit @ 3 yards when the moon clip did not cooperate during the reload and I had to rush my last 6 shots. This years F&N at the IRC is in the middle of my normal score distribution so not too bad. There is no would of could of in shooting but that's my story and I'm sticking to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted October 1, 2008 Author Share Posted October 1, 2008 Good stuff, John, keep it coming! DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Bagakis Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 I have used the Bear Creek 158gr RN and the 170gr Spire point with Bullseye, Long Colt case and had good results. I tried the Sierra 170's and could not see a diffference in group size from the Bear Creek Bullets. Good Luck! See you there next year! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Hey, would now be a good time to throw in my standard commentary about how the Near and Far Standards should be ditched in favor of a variable standards stage that changes from year to year??--in order to keep the match a better test of overall revolver shooting and not merely a measure of who's had the most time to set up and repetitively practice one very narrow and specific shooting task?? Is it a good time to suggest once again that ICORE needs to "de-Bianchi-fy" the IRC?? Nah, I'll think I'll just keep those thoughts to myself and let Doug get his loading data...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmax Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 (edited) Mike, Is the Steel Challenge stale and no longer challenging? I don't think so and there are stages we all hate but I could not and would not suggest that those be changed as they are tough and are the best of speed steel shooting. The F&N standards exemplify tough revolver shooting at it's best. Examining the overall finish and skill level of shooters, good ones do well in F&N and those that are not as skilled overall do not fare as well. My feeling is keep them even if someone ever zeros the stage and we get to start over. It consists of an excellent mix of speed, accuracy (especially if one cannot go prone) at 25 & 50 yards, reloading at 15, 10 and 3 yards and of course strong and weak hand shooting at 3 yds. As much whining about weak hand shooting that there is one could make also the populist case for eliminating that too. Keep F&N as it is. Edited October 1, 2008 by jmax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snubby Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Mike. I am so glad that you are keeping your comments about the out dated good old boy stage at the IRC that only a few like TO YOURSELF!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Mike,Is the Steel Challenge stale and no longer challenging? I don't think so and there are stages we all hate but I could not and would not suggest that those be changed as they are tough and are the best of speed steel shooting. The F&N standards exemplify tough revolver shooting at it's best. Examining the overall finish and skill level of shooters, good ones do well in F&N and those that are not as skilled overall do not fare as well. My feeling is keep them even if someone ever zeros the stage and we get to start over. It consists of an excellent mix of speed, accuracy (especially if one cannot go prone) at 25 & 50 yards, reloading at 15, 10 and 3 yards and of course strong and weak hand shooting at 3 yds. As much whining about weak hand shooting that there is one could make also the populist case for eliminating that too. Keep F&N as it is. Not that we're discussing this topic, John, but.... I would actually like Steel Challenge much better--and I think it would be a much better test of true shooting skills--if the stages changed every year and were revealed at the beginning of each match. Then we would get to see not who stood on the practice range the longest, but who is the best at shooting on demand. I'm fine with having a standards stage at the IRC every year, and I'm fine with it being a tough shooting test. They can shorten up the par times and add a 75 yard string for all I care. I just think they should vary the standards from year to year, so that there isn't so much advantage created by practicing the same damn thing over and over and over and "grooving it in." (Probably sounds weird for an old pin shooter to say that, huh?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 I guess tha is why they call them the Standards, or as a lot of us call it "That D@>< Stage. If The stage was not weighted heavy so that it counted more on the entire finish of the match there might not be a problem. But in ICORE one cannot do poorly on any stage and finish up well. My opinion worth every penny you paid for it. later rdd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffl Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 I guess tha is why they call them the Standards, or as a lot of us call it "That D@>< Stage. If The stage was not weighted heavy so that it counted more on the entire finish of the match there might not be a problem. But in ICORE one cannot do poorly on any stage and finish up well. My opinion worth every penny you paid for it. later rdd I want my money back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmax Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 (edited) Bubber is right uniform performance for each stage is critical in ones finish overall. Now back on target, Clays works great with 158 gr Bear Creek moly coated RN bullets loaded in 38 LC brass Edited October 3, 2008 by jmax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtrooper Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Bubber is right uniform performance for each stage is critical in ones finish overall. Now back on target, Clays works great with 158 gr Bear Creek moly coated RN bullets loaded in 38 LC brass I'm new to ICORE and have heard much about the 38 Short Colt in the 627 eight shot, jut picked one up, but just read about the 38 Long Colt with the Bear Creek 158 RN in the Long Colt. I have been using this bullet in the 38 Special at NRA Action Pistol matches and it works great. Since I have been reading up on the 627 the Short Colt is mentioned often as quicker to reload with. What is the best bullet to use with the Short Colt in the 627. Will the 158 grain work in the Short Colt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Bubber is right uniform performance for each stage is critical in ones finish overall. Now back on target, Clays works great with 158 gr Bear Creek moly coated RN bullets loaded in 38 LC brass I'm new to ICORE and have heard much about the 38 Short Colt in the 627 eight shot, jut picked one up, but just read about the 38 Long Colt with the Bear Creek 158 RN in the Long Colt. I have been using this bullet in the 38 Special at NRA Action Pistol matches and it works great. Since I have been reading up on the 627 the Short Colt is mentioned often as quicker to reload with. What is the best bullet to use with the Short Colt in the 627. Will the 158 grain work in the Short Colt? Oldtrooper, The 158 will work but I have had discussions with guys using the 38 SC and they relayed to me that the 358 don't work as well as the 356 and 357. It all has to do with the bullet, powder and barrel combination so Your Mileage May Vary. My 627 38 super likes the 160 grain moly in 357. I use Clays powder at about 785 to 815 fps and seems to print well. Maybe RA Miller can chime in for his recipe for his S&W MP revo 327 I think and he uses a lighter copper coated or jacket bullet that also does well for groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAustin Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Ah here we go again! Words like "works great" or "seems" or "prints well". What is the gun and what is the load and what are your groups at what range? Seems to be an easy question to understand. 627 38 super, 151 rainer 38 super bullet, 3.5 Tite group 2.5 in group off sand bag at 50 yards. I've tried a lot of different loads in my 627 357s and the 151 38 super bullet over 4.5 Tite Group is about the best with groups that are from 3.5 to 5 inches. You guys just don't want to eliminate the gun for bad scores do you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Hey Doug, I worried about this too when I started shooting short colt but I found my regular load would shoot them all in the X ring at 50 so I didn't bother working up something different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom E Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 (edited) I just got a 627 so I'm new in that respect, BUT when you have a long jump to the chamber throat (SC in a 357 mag chamber), slightly smaller bullets with a long bearing surface (heavier bullets) seem to center and stabilize better. I like the idea of far and near standards. I don't like having to go prone. Some of us are busted up pretty good but shoot well but don't move well. Starting prone would be fine. Going prone from standing doesn't strike me as a shooting issue. Too much like having a stage where you run in from the parking lot, pick up your gun off a table and start shooting. Just shoot it standing same as the other strings. Fair test. Edited November 6, 2008 by Tom E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 I like the idea of far and near standards. I don't like having to go prone. You don't have to go prone on Far and Near. You can shoot the whole thing standing on your hind legs. I don't particularly like shooting from prone, so I just shoot the 25- and 50-yards strings standing up. No biggie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom E Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 (edited) I like the idea of far and near standards. I don't like having to go prone. You don't have to go prone on Far and Near. You can shoot the whole thing standing on your hind legs. I don't particularly like shooting from prone, so I just shoot the 25- and 50-yards strings standing up. No biggie. Some of us don't turn well also. A shooting skills test stage is fine and that appears to be the intent of far and near standards. Keep it simply a shooting skills stage. Edited November 6, 2008 by Tom E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 (edited) Go to the IRC and you'll see guys who are fat and old and way out of shape drop to prone very quickly! Edited November 7, 2008 by Carmoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 I like the idea of far and near standards. I don't like having to go prone. You don't have to go prone on Far and Near. You can shoot the whole thing standing on your hind legs. I don't particularly like shooting from prone, so I just shoot the 25- and 50-yards strings standing up. No biggie. Some of us don't turn well also. A shooting skills test stage is fine and that appears to be the intent of far and near standards. Keep it simply a shooting skills stage. Tom E. The Far and Near is more than a shooting skills test. I will tax your concentration, and focus. The restart on each string has you haveing to refocus in a short time to the task at hand. Especially when you get to the Strong and Weak hand run. One little bobble and you concept of time goes awry and a lot of the competitors will rip the last six shots to finish in time, only to thave the buzzer go off when they hear the unload and show clear command. Well maybe not that bad but they did have enough time to make sure of their hits. The turn and draw option was started because of some competitors not being able to go prone and then get back up. ICORE will, according to their rule. accomidate varying degrees of a competitors disabilities to make it an even playing field. But Jmax even with his ankles were completly torn up was able to turn and shoot the 50 yard session. With an x ring count stage here and there that will encompass the bullseye skills, and ICORE is trying to test all of the different genre of shooting disciplines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Go to the IRC and you'll see guys who are fat and old and way out of shape ..... Mike [color="#FF0000"]Quit looking at me when you say that!!!!!!!!!![/color] Later rdd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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