Feek Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 Hi. This is my first forum post, so treat me nicely In the UK we aren't allowed real handguns so we shoot airguns. I specifically use the TAC system (See here for details) in a Taurus revolver. From what I understand, this is based on the Taurus Model 66 and it's about the closest we can get to real handguns. We shoot practical pistol through the UKPSA which is based on IPSC and although I've not been shooting for long I'm doing reasonably well on the UK shooting circuit. However, I'm not happy with my reloads. I've not specifically timed them but I tend to fumble and not get a clean load all the time. In fact I'd say that it's about 50% good and 50% fumble which can obviously be a killer in competition. My technique is as follows: Push the cylinder release with my left thumb and push the cylinder open with my right index finger (trigger finger). Give the gun a quick flick upwards and backwards to eject the TACs (being air powered they don't get hot at all and never stick). At the same time as the TACs are falling out, my left hand drops to my belt and picks up a jetloader. The gun gets angled forward as I hold the jetloader around the large part, with my left index finger touching the TACs so that I know the position of them. All this is fine, it's the next stage where I get the fumble. I then move my right thumb out of the way so that it doesn't get hit by the end of the jetloader as I push the loader into the cylinder to eject the TACs. I often fumble the actual part of pushing the jetloader forward into eject mode. I've ordered both Brian's Practical Shooting Beyond Fundimentals book and Matt's Practical Shooting Manual for my general shooting technique but I really need to sort out my reloads. I've spent the last day or so reading through the forums here and I have to say that this is an absolute wealth of info and I'm really looking forward to reading a lot more posts. Thanks, Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 Keith, With a little variation that is how I reloaded with the Jet Loaders. However I was using round nose bullets that help. You are using 177 pellets. Are they Flat pointed? I say this because here they are. If so that is major source of your problem. The Jet loaders I used were made some years ago and thought they went out of business or sold to Safariland. When trying the Reload do try this. After breaking and calling the last shot use the right thumb to push the cylinder release the left hand fingers to push open the cylinder. Then the left thumb pushes the ejector rod extracting what ever is left in the cylinder. Go for the loaders with the left hand indexing with the finger on the loader using it as a guide for the charge holes. "Leave the thumb on the loaders all through the process" When the cylinders are loaded the Jet loader should fall away. "Mine would spring back away." Then "Roll" your left hand to regrasp the revo using the palm swell under your left thumb to close the cylinder. With a Revo shoot fast and reload smooth. Don't try it fast, just smooth. I hope I understood what the situation is and hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feek Posted July 8, 2003 Author Share Posted July 8, 2003 The pellets I use are .22 rather than .177 but it doesn't really make any difference what the calibre is, or the pellet head because the pellet itself is completely enclosed within the front of the TAC cartridge. Here are a couple of pictures of the TACs in the jetloaders As you can see though, the front of the cartridge is pretty much square. My right thumb won't reach the cylinder release without significantly changing my grip on the revo, that's why I've been finding it easier to just raise my left hand and release the cylinder with my left thumb. My right trigger finger then pushes the cylinder open and I don't actually need to use the ejector rod because if I just angle the revo and sort of jerk it back towards me, the empty TAC cartridges just fall out with no extra encouragement! While they're on the way out I'm reaching for the next loader. All this works, and seems to work well! It's purely the indexing of the loader full of cartridges that is causing the problem and I suspect that because of the flat front edges that I have to be really accurate in getting them lined up and that's where I'm stumbling. Good tip regarding rolling the hand round though to close the cylinder, thanks for that. I've been simply slamming it closed with an upwards flick of my left hand once the loader has dropped away and although it looks flashy, it's not very quick! I'll have to video myself reloading and post it. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedStick Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 Keith, Is there anyway you can make the TAC's round nose? From what you posted, it doesn't seem like a very big deal to make the TAC's round nose in design and then seat the pellets a little lower than the radius of the round nose? Would this be acceptable? If you could make them round nose in design it sure would help your reloads! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Nesbitt Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 What about chamfering the mouths of the chambers? If the pressures with the pellet are low you could hog out a bunch of metal. Bill Nesbitt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feek Posted July 9, 2003 Author Share Posted July 9, 2003 Bill's idea might be the best - A bit of chamfering of the chambers themselves. The power of these cartridges is extremely low by firearm standards so there's no problem with pressure at all. Rounding the TAC heads isn't an option - The brass is pretty thin and I just don't think it's possible to do it. K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 You might also try tipping the loader into the cylinder. Instead of trying to jam all six in at once, angle the loader and catch the first two, then pivot on those to line the others up, then push forward. Back when I was shooting PPC with full wadcutters, that was the only way you could do a smooth, fast reload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Keith, One other "Trick" on the speedloading is to cut down the speedloader so that ther is about .30 inches where the rounds are retained. This works in the standard rounds. It keeps the loader from pulling out one round when reloading. It also gets the speedloader the h#$$ out of the way a lot faster. We did it all the time when I was in Arizona. A guy named Mike Henry took it to the extreme a couple of times and I ended up with a few of his good ones. The only thing is that to load them after the modifications is that you will need the Safariland loading blocks. Also it makes it weapon sensitive. It will work in a S&W but not in the Colts. If interested let me know and I can walk you through the process. With the advent of the eight shot and moon clips most revo shooters use the clips. But my fastest loads are still with the speadloaders but I am working on the clip reload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feek Posted July 11, 2003 Author Share Posted July 11, 2003 Hmm, not sure which bit you mean to cut down, but it's an idea.. More info required please. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 Keith, To cut down the speedloader first disassemble the jet loader. There is a small pin in the release pin. Push it out and remove it. There is a small spring behind it. On the Jet Loaders I believe there is a hole all the way through the top knob with a roll pin. Push it out and remove. The big spring will have quite a bit of tension on it. Remove the center . After all is disassembled the housing that encases the rounds can be cut down. We have used a belt sander to take where the rounds fit down to .30 inches. You will probably need an exacto knife to clean it up then reassemble. This will make the Jet loader somewhat faster but also makes in model sensitive so that it will work on S&W’s Not the Colts. I am not sure with the Taurus’s though. I would try with one first. I don’t know the price of the Jet Loaders over there. We used to get them about $10.00 a piece here a long time ago. Now I think they’re about $15.00. Good Luck and let me Know how they work for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phara Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 I've seen this done successfully on the Safariland Comp III's also. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phara Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 As a matter of fact I just tried it on my Comp III's. What a difference! The lip of the casing is now so short that the rounds don't get stuck like they used too during fast but slightly sloppy reloads. Big thanks Bubber! Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feek Posted July 15, 2003 Author Share Posted July 15, 2003 Once I get my Taurus back from the smith, I'll give that a try. Sounds like it could be seriously worth a look. Thanks. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Just to bump this up for Luke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Have you tried reloading with the right hand rather than the left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
53justice Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Keith, I'm interested in solving your delima. How about telling me where I can order some of those brass contraptions. e-mail me at work, jjustice@cfcc.edu and we'll converse. I spent about 12 years there and visit fairly often. I'd be interested in attending a competition. Joe Justice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Fay Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Thanks for the bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewokUk Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 Hi Keith, Have you tried any of Bob's or Tony's smoothed TACS? I know when I started using my stainless steel tapered ones, my reloading times became a lot more consistant, if not faster (lack of practice). Ooops, I just noticed your original posting date. Did you ever chamfer the mouths of your chambers? I didn't do it on the Brococks because the ejection star looks too thin, but what about your Taurus? BTW Guys, "doing not too badly" means Keith is one of the top 3 in UK. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowsure Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 To cut down the speedloader first disassemble the jet loader. There is a small pin in the release pin. Push it out and remove it. There is a small spring behind it. On the Jet Loaders I believe there is a hole all the way through the top knob with a roll pin. Push it out and remove. The big spring will have quite a bit of tension on it. Remove the center . After all is disassembled the housing that encases the rounds can be cut down. We have used a belt sander to take where the rounds fit down to .30 inches. Bubber, I'm dont know about the Jet loader but the comp III's have 3 little "nibs" on the face I believe you are modifing. Do you remove the 3 little "nibs" sticking out of the face of the comp III speedloader also? I want to try this mod. but not sure how to remove material and not grind away the 3 little prongs at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopalong Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 Hi Allen ! What kind of wheel gun Blaster did you get ???? Talked to Curtis the other day, said no tactical 3 gun for the spring but most likely a tactical Rifle and then 3-gun in the fall. You planning on shooting the wheel gun much or is this a "project" ? NTPS is having a special Classifier next month I am planning on going will have wheel gun but will also have GLOCK for Production, Need to get that % up to B class that way the percentage fits where they have me classed. Hang in there with the round blaster, speed loaders are just a quick as moonclips if you practice and be patient.... Kind of like Single stack is just as quick as Double stack if you practice. Will see you on the range some where, some time. Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowsure Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 Sam, I got a used Mod 10 4" heavy bbl. Got 5 comp III speed loaders. Thinkin about the mod BUBBER has described (if i got it figured out). I started making my own holsters now and have made my speedloader holders too you'll have to check them out...you may want some I have shot some IDPA with the 10 but and NOW HERE THIS Middle TN Shooters are going to join ICORE and start having 1 match a quarter...maybe more if there is enough intrest. My whole set-up is for ICORE right now...just dippin my toes. Revo is a blast and having lots of fun. I'm running the 3-gun stuff @ Mid TN. Keeps me out of trouble and busy. Come have some 3-gun with us Feb 6th. Maybe I'll get over to NTPS for the classifiers. I'm knockin hard on the B class door in Limited. Might try revo...that might be a hoot I gotta go throw another log on the fire. See ya at the range Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Slowsure, The speedloader is cut down more than the three bumps. If you can tell me how to post a picture like the one feek did I could get it. If you would like a view of it I could send it over e-mail but can't figure this stuff out to well. Let me know. later rdd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 Here are Bubber's pics: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 Hopalong, What are the dates for the NTPS special classifier? Have they set a date for the rifle match? Are they gonna do 3Gun for sure in the fall? I like shooting there, we usually go down for the 3Gun and the TN State, and their fundraisers. We are excited about the rifle match too. It is only 3.5 hours from central KY, and those guys do an awesome job. Oh, thread drift...where are my manners? How about speedloading a 610, do you use right or left hand(I am right handed and have used both methods)? DO you recommend a chamfer job? What moonclips? I have decided to leave the trigger stock on this one(it is smooth) and factory sights will remain as well. I will probably stay with Kydex since I only shoot it 6-8 times per year in USPSA, and may carry it in the woods occasionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopalong Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 Fomeister, For My 610..... It is Chamfered, Yes I recommened a Chamfer Job especialy on the 610, I have Hearthco Moon clips and am really satisified with them, I use 155 grn Round Nose precision bullets (NO lead smoke and is as clean as Jacketed and cheaper too) as for which hand.... in IDPA I use right handed reloads exclusively as it is the faster of the two styles of reload for me.... In USPSA it depends.... If moving from the right to left and I have time I prefer to use the left hand reload to help keep the muzzle away from the 180.... And once I get past mid body a left hand reload is as fast as a righthand reload havin to reach around to get it. I practice both and might catch Spook one of these days (if someone breaks his fingers) and am quite comfortable doing either type of reload so there you go. (Thread Drift) NTPS shoots the 12 & 13th of February, that is when they are doing the classifier match (my understanding) go to www.ntps.org and click on Contact Us to make sure as the web site has not been updated. The rest of the info is "not for sure" type of stuff that they are still talking about. Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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