Sizer Die for 223 Remington

[norbs007]

I've been reloading 223 Reminton with a single stage press using a Dillon FL Sizer die, Redding Competition Seating die and Crimp die. Sized and trimmed my cases according to the manual and gauge the rounds using the JP case gauge. These loads are for my JP rifles with Wylde chambers, occasionally the rounds will chamber fine but requires some force to pull out. They won't even chamber in my LMT rifle. I figured it's the sizer die, so what you guys suggest? Thanks

[D.Hayden]

Norbert.. did you setup the sizer using the case gauge?

[D.carden]

Norbert,

during sizing, are you camming over slightly on the sizer die.....?????

Edited July 31, 2008 by D.carden

[Raindog]

My cousin had a .222 Rem that had a very short throat. Some cases near max length would jam the neck in the throat. Took us a long time to figure out what was happening. He got a plug gauge from Sinclair and we found cases had to be trimmed .005 under the book max. Not sure if it applies here but if nothing else fixes it......

[00bullitt]

Sounds like you are not setting the shoulder deep enough. Use the case gauge to make sure it is headspacing properly. If it chambers and is hard to eject.....this is usually the case. Ask me how I know

[GentlemanJim]

The Wylde chamber should have a generous throat...its small elsewhere

Jim

[norbs007]

Norbert.. did you setup the sizer using the case gauge?

Initial setup, yes. I use a Hornady Lock-N-Load die bushings on my Rock Chucker, it might have moved along the process.

Norbert,

during sizing, are you camming over slightly on the sizer die.....?????

Yes, but I do notice the bottom of the die still doesn't touch the shell plate.

Thanks for the replies, I have to recheck everything.

Edited August 1, 2008 by norbs007

[PoconoJohn]

Norbert, which JP are you shooting? I just received my VTAC the other day. Just starting the breaking in process. I've decided to start reloading and was going to suggest a phone call to JP himself. I know he does a lot of reloading and may be able to add some good info to the already good stuff here.

What type of reloader would you suggest for a newbie?

[fastshooter03]

You MUST have something to compare the headspace of your fired cases to that which you are loading.

That is the only accurate way to know what going on so you're not over/undersizing your brass.

A case gauge won't do it.

Stoney point makes adapters that go on your calipers. ONe is for measuring headspace and one is for measuring base to bullet Ogive.

In a pinch you can use a piece of pistol brass if it sits on the shoulder of the 223 brass.

All you're doing is making sure your sizing die is pushing the shoulder back .001-.003".

Nick

[Rangerat]

You MUST have something to compare the headspace of your fired cases to that which you are loading.

That is the only accurate way to know what going on so you're not over/undersizing your brass.

A case gauge won't do it.

Stoney point makes adapters that go on your calipers. ONe is for measuring headspace and one is for measuring base to bullet Ogive.

In a pinch you can use a piece of pistol brass if it sits on the shoulder of the 223 brass.

All you're doing is making sure your sizing die is pushing the shoulder back .001-.003".

Nick

It is amazing to me how many reloaders feel it is only necessary to use nothing or a gauge to check their sizing. Not understanding the firedformed headspace and the sized headspace is flirting with danger.

[Religious Shooter]

What you two guys just wrote is news to me. Do you have a link or something to read up on?

[bigsaxdog]

Norbert.. did you setup the sizer using the case gauge?

Initial setup, yes. I use a Hornady Lock-N-Load die bushings on my Rock Chucker, it might have moved along the process.

Norbert,

during sizing, are you camming over slightly on the sizer die.....?????

Yes, but I do notice the bottom of the die still doesn't touch the shell plate.

Thanks for the replies, I have to recheck everything.

you bring your single stage ram all the way up, then you screw in your sizing die till' it contacts the shell plate on the ram. then you screw with it a bit till the ram cams over. you'll feel this tension. leave it this way, locked up, then tighten the lock ring on your die. this guarantees that you are tightening the lock ring of the die w/ the die square w/ the shell plate. the bottom of the die has to be in contact w/ the shell plate. now you're as tight as you can get. usually manufacturers make their sizing dies a bit shorter than SAMMI specs, sizing the brass a bit too much, but it's a liability issue, so they don't design a slam fire, if you follow me..... if this adjustment doesn't work, then you might have to get a small base die, though i've been told that dillon cuts their dies as small base dies, so..... you still should get some tools to be able to measure how much you set the shoulder back, and be able to compare fired vs. sized brass. loading .223 or any rifle ain't like running 500 rds. of .40 as fast as you can go......

Edited August 11, 2008 by bigsaxdog

[Rangerat]

What you two guys just wrote is news to me. Do you have a link or something to read up on?

http://www.fulton-armory.com/headspace.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headspace_%28firearms%29

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&...=4&t=315921

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/...&t=11082005

http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=485

[kraigwy]

The guys are correct regarding a Case Gage. The Wilson Case gage works and its only about 20 bucks. Mandantory for gas gun reloading.

What happens is this this:

The Bullet is still in the Barrel when the action starts to open. After the bullet passes the gas port, the gas bleeds off starting to cam the bolt. You still have pressure in the chamber thats pushing against the inside of the shoulder. and the bolt is pulling on the rear of the case, stretching the case resulting in increased head space. The case has to be resized to fit the chamber. If not, you have problems with the round not chambering, or not extraction, and in worse case senerios slam fires. (Slam fires are not as common in ARs as they are in M1As & M1).

What needs to happen is to set up your sizing die to get the shoulder set back to factory specs. Thats where the case gage comes in. Use it to set up your die and you are good to go.

Some chambers are so tight (my White Oak Service Rifle) and I've tried several sizing dies, but ended up in cutting a few thousands off the shell holder.

Be careful not to get the shoulder set back too far. Thats why I like the wilson gage. It checks for too much set back as well as proper set back.

You can make the gage also, I made one for my M1 buy using a 30 cal barrel blank, cutting it to lengh and running a '06 chamber reamer through it. Both gages, Mine and Wilsons also measures neck length.

Sorry to get too long winded on my first post, but this is a sore subject with me, I've seen Gas guns blown up due to improper case sizing.

[norbs007]

Norbert, which JP are you shooting? I just received my VTAC the other day. Just starting the breaking in process. I've decided to start reloading and was going to suggest a phone call to JP himself. I know he does a lot of reloading and may be able to add some good info to the already good stuff here.

What type of reloader would you suggest for a newbie?

Congratulations on a fine rifle, you'll surely love it. As for a starter press it all depends how much you wanted to spend. A lot of good presses available out there, Dillon makes some of the finest and you won't go wrong with any of them. I started out with an RCBS Rock Chucker single stage press to learn the basics and upgraded to a progressive. To this day I still load rifle rounds on my single stage which I enjoy doing...a lot of work but relaxing to me. I would suggest to start with a progressive press as you will most likely end up with one anyways...they all do Lot's of good info here, just take your time in learning the process and always put safety above all.

The guys are correct regarding a Case Gage. The Wilson Case gage works and its only about 20 bucks. Mandantory for gas gun reloading.

What happens is this this:

The Bullet is still in the Barrel when the action starts to open. After the bullet passes the gas port, the gas bleeds off starting to cam the bolt. You still have pressure in the chamber thats pushing against the inside of the shoulder. and the bolt is pulling on the rear of the case, stretching the case resulting in increased head space. The case has to be resized to fit the chamber. If not, you have problems with the round not chambering, or not extraction, and in worse case senerios slam fires. (Slam fires are not as common in ARs as they are in M1As & M1).

What needs to happen is to set up your sizing die to get the shoulder set back to factory specs. Thats where the case gage comes in. Use it to set up your die and you are good to go.

Some chambers are so tight (my White Oak Service Rifle) and I've tried several sizing dies, but ended up in cutting a few thousands off the shell holder.

Be careful not to get the shoulder set back too far. Thats why I like the wilson gage. It checks for too much set back as well as proper set back.

You can make the gage also, I made one for my M1 buy using a 30 cal barrel blank, cutting it to lengh and running a '06 chamber reamer through it. Both gages, Mine and Wilsons also measures neck length.

Sorry to get too long winded on my first post, but this is a sore subject with me, I've seen Gas guns blown up due to improper case sizing.

I use the JP case gauge but stopped gauging the sized cases lately. I do however gauge the finished rounds and they all free fall from the gauge. The problem is surely on the sizing, I have three JP rifles and it's the same on all them. Below is how I setup the sizing die:

I raise the ram all the way, with the Lock N Load bushing I screw down the sizer die until it touches the shell plate and screw it in more until I feel the ram cams over and tighten the ring lock. When sizing a case the bottom of the die will not touch the shell plate even if I screw it in more; I have a feeling that I'm over sizing the case and pushing the neck back more that it should. I normally size, trim and gauge the case. As long as it levels at the case mouth it's usually good to go. As you all suggested, I will compare and take measurements. Is the Wilson gauge better than the JP? Thanks!