What Do You See...

[Matthew_Mink]

I can relate to the 'can't remember syndrome'. A couple of times at FGN this year as I was heading to the next array my brain was telling me that I had forgotten to reload. Luckily I didn't listen to it and kept shooting, because I had reloaded somewhere.

[Steve Anderson]

When you shoot in the present tense, there's nothing to remember.

I read that in a book...

SA

[Skywalker]

I too read that book quite recently, and probably I'm still confused, but I don't recall that sentence.

I would not agree with it too.

If I remember correctly, in the present tense there is no thinking/speculating/reasoning, just awareness and focus, but the visual inputs you got during it can be brought back later to memory (sort of snapshots), to become your experience and to let you progress in knowledge and skill.

If you deny the possibility of recalling visual inputs, how can you review your performance and actually learn from your mistakes or from your best performaces?

But, again, I might still be confused from such reading.

My experience is related to my best stage I ever shot: I can still visually recall each shot I fired, steel falling and sight picture on paper targets as I progressed through the stage; I can recall as well being in a strange two-fold state: there was me shooting at my best, focused on sights and targets, and there was another me staring at the whole scene from outside of my body (sort of a close spectator); no conscious thought ever crossed my mind.

[MattBurkett]

Steve

Skywalker, it all depends upon which type of the zone your in. When truly functioning in the "now" there will be no snapshots or recollections.

"If you deny the possibility of recalling visual inputs, how can you review your performance and actually learn from your mistakes or from your best performaces?"

Because when you are "there" none of the above is necessary.

Until someone has been there, it is impossible to explain it to them. Sure they can think of it conceptually, but, they do not "know" it.

Remember Zen is easy: You either have it and don't need it or need it and can't get it.

Take care,

[TDean]

Well-described Matt, that's just what I was thinking.

It seems that when you reach a point when you are sure of your skills, you just let your training take over.

You no longer have to "try" to see the sights on the target. The mind just realizes that everything is in order and the shot breaks.

To me, it's like breathing through a snorkel. The first time you get in the water and try it, you'll remember the feeling of the added pressure, the plastic taste, inhaling some water and the noise of the air traveling through the tube. After a weekend of this, you get accustomed to the breathing technique. You have learned that skill.

If someone were to ask you about your breathing on your last dive, what would you remember?

You remember struggling to learn the skill a couple days before, but the last few dives you were just

on autopilot. No thinking, no recollection.

[Skywalker]

Matt, Tdean,

I will accept your valuable experience and point of view, but (judging from your posts) I would argue that the visual inputs I was referring are always present, they are just filtered and discarded as not significant for an experienced shooter, while they are retained and recalled to be evaluated and (eventually) translate into experience for a novice shooter.

Anyway, I'l definitely need to go through another reading of that book.

[Loves2Shoot]

Good point Skywalker.

What is fast? Is it breaking the shot will less visual input than you need by using the point and shoot method, or just enough to call every shot and no more? I think the truely fast, see most everything, and can even recall alot of it, because they are aware. I know after the Oregon Open the stages I shot the best (fastest) I remember a whole lot about everything in the whole stage. That is usually the case for me, when I am ULTRA aware I go faster, and it seems much slower when I am doing. No chaos means no hesitation or extra movements. Just my 2 cents

[ap3]

General question

This may be a bit elementary, but it pertains to if you change shooting arrays by going to a different port, or around a wall and the targets are in that 7-12 yard range. Do you find the first target on that array you use a bit more front sight focus, and then go with a target focus for speed? Is it simply an experience thing as to where or not you can make a physical transition and start with a target focus ?

[Steve Anderson]

That's a great question...

I believe the answer is, as always, to see what you need to see to make the shot.

This is different for everybody, and must be learned (and trusted) on an individual basis.

Set up these types of arrays in practice and let the learning begin.

You may learn that when you have a choice (paper/steel, etc) on what to shoot first that you have some strong preferences...

Do focus on shooting as soon as possible when entering a new area.

SA

[pimp]

I can only say that I see what I need to see when I need to see it , I noticed that on tight shots I automatically, bring it in so to speak and I don't really think in terms of speed . Its kind of like a feel , Its not what you see but what you feel or both what you see and feel . the thing that buigs me the most is when it feels and looks right but ends up wrong I guess its the time you didn't call your shot and you miss and you can't imagine how???????????

[davecutts]

A light bulb went on for me at last weekend's match. I hadn't shoot for two weeks, and home improvement projects have kept me from dry firing as often as I would have liked. When I did dry fire all I did was target transition drills (fairly late at night) for less than five minutes maybe three nights. I did not pull the trigger; all I was doing was looking and reading what I saw. I wanted to see the target before I saw my sights I would hold the sight on target for a one count than acquire and new target. My shooting of late had been sporadic at best usually fast times with lousy hits and mikes on most stages. Well Saturday I get to the match and all I want to do is see my hits. I placed fourth limited against 2 GM's and a Master, although if they put Voight in the limited (which he was shooting) scores I would have been fifth

On the one stage I tried to hurry and go fast I tanked it three mikes, and a couple of D's, hell I even left a piece of steel standing. On that stage I placed tenth out of 21. For the other five stages I had fourth x 3, second and third each once, and I never once felt like I was rushing the stage, or myself, I saw the sights where I wanted them to be and most of the time I watched them lift out of the notch, but always I saw the target before I saw my sights on the target.

It was the first time in months when I got home and my wife asked how I did I said I thought I did pretty well.

On one stand and blast 19 target orgy I remember the front sight flouting in and out of the A area (no the A zone because I haven't quit mastered the art of focusing in on the A yet) the first ten targets felt incredible, then I bumbled the reload (2.66 sec) a bit and tried to rush the finish. My buddies watch in said after the reload it looked like I gave up, and slowed down, but I felt the tension from trying to go faster ... so this week I've been working on my reloads, along with the target transitions.