WST or WSF, which one?

[bobobooie]

I have a question for the masses. I currently use WST powder for my .40 lead loads. I am aware of the reverse temp sensitivity and am very pleased with it thus far. I have done hours of research here and while I see WSF being mentioned, I have yet to see WST and WSF discussed together. I like to experiment, but before I buy some WSF to try I thought I'd ask.

1. What are the differences between the two?

2. Is one better for lead/jacketed than the other?

3. For you and your gun, was one more accurate than the other with the same bullet?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts you can share.

Paul

[TonyT]

I use WST for mild loads with lead bullets in 40 S&W and 45 ACP and WSF with jacketed bullets in 9mm and 40 S&W.

I have a question for the masses. I currently use WST powder for my .40 lead loads. I am aware of the reverse temp sensitivity and am very pleased with it thus far. I have done hours of research here and while I see WSF being mentioned, I have yet to see WST and WSF discussed together. I like to experiment, but before I buy some WSF to try I thought I'd ask.

1. What are the differences between the two?

2. Is one better for lead/jacketed than the other?

3. For you and your gun, was one more accurate than the other with the same bullet?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts you can share.

Paul

[ShooterSteve]

I shoot WST behind a 180 gr MG hp. Shoot it out of my para and G35. Only difference is the load length.

[bruce282]

I use WST with 147gn molys in 9MM and as soon as my Clays is gone I'll use it with moly 230gr .45.

[Harmon]

wst works well in the 40 and 45 with lead bullets at major

if i planned on using jacketed bullets in the 40 or 9mm, i would use WSF

Harmon

[bobobooie]

Thanks a bunch. That helps a lot.

[bayouman]

I just bought a lb of each to test to replace N320, BUT why would WST be better for lead bullets and WSF better for jacketed - given the same weights? Is that faster burning powders are better for lead bullets?

[wide45]

WSF is a slower powder, that will give more felt recoil. I use it to go beyond major power factor in .45, never used it in the .40

I use WST for lead, because it shoots great, and smokes less than just about anything else. I have a different powder for jacketed, that feels even better, because smoke is not an issue.

Edited June 27, 2008 by wide45

[bruce282]

Never used WSF, but I use WST for my moly 147gr. I have also used it for 125gr JHP HAP bullets. I did try it with JHP 147's but there aren't published loads for that, so I use TG until all my JHP/FMJ 147's are gone.

SA FRIDAY did extensive testing with various bullets and powers. Great thread in 9mm reloading.

Bruce

[JLO]

I just bought a pound of WSF. Loaded 6.4gr, Speer 165 cmj, OAL 1.120., once fired S&B brass. (Speer #14)

I liked the feel and it burned VERY clean. Chrono'd at avg. 1072, sd 6.5.

I may back it down to 6.2gr on the next batch and test it. Overall, I was very happy with it.

-- Jeff

[SA Friday]

I just bought a lb of each to test to replace N320, BUT why would WST be better for lead bullets and WSF better for jacketed - given the same weights? Is that faster burning powders are better for lead bullets?

Most go with the faster powders in all USPSA reloads regardless of caliber because of the recoil impulse. I tested (in 9mm) both fast and slower powders to determine if burn rate had an effect on the amount of smoke produced with a moly coated bullet. Lead and Moly have the same problems, leading and smoke. Moly is essentially an alternate to lube in a cast bullet. What I found more important than burn rate to stop smoke and leading is getting the bullet to seal off immediately after leaving the case and stopping hot gasses from escaping around the side of the bullet. Some powders were better at this than others. In 40 S&W at major pf's it's fairly easy to accomplish with a lot of different powders. So, the second question is what is accurate. Then 3rd, what has the best feel/recoil impulse. Both WST and WSF will work in 40 cal, IMO. I also believe you will find the faster WST recoil impulse more a sharp snap and the WSF a more constant push. It will really depend which impulse you prefer.

If you want to try something not temp sensitive with a burn rate almost exactly like N320 with the least amount of smoke and leading with lead or moly bullets, try Solo 1000. I haven't yet worked a load up for lead/moly with Solo 1000 in 40cal yet, but there is info on BE from those that have. BTW, WST was one of the better powders I found with moly bullets in 9mm. Other than it being reverse temp sensitive, it's really good stuff too.

[RevolverJockey]

I hear a lot about inverse temperature sensitivity, but how much are we talking. I am in the Northwest where it ranges from high 20s to high 80s on a given year. Right now I load pretty much for the season, and use a chrono everytime I see one set up, while making note of the temperature. To be honest I have not noticed any real difference. Then again I am loading mostly for steel and local matches. Any expereince would be appreciated. If it matters, I am shooting a G22, factory barrel, and my own cast 175 tc, 3.0 g WST, previously 4.0 g WSF, but honestly cannot tell a difference in recoil, accuracy, or temperature sensitivity between the two.

Edited July 3, 2008 by Mitch_Rapp.45

[Deputy1199]

I reload only jacketed or plated bullets and I have reduced my powder inventory to two -- WST and WSF. My preferred load for .40 caliber is 6.5 grains of WSF under a 155 gr Rainier or MG plated FP. WST is a faster burning powder and 4.5 grains under a 230gr .45ACP plated RN from Rainier, MC or Berrys works just fine. Both loads are extremely accurate with negligible recoil, low flash and clean burning.

Edited July 13, 2008 by Deputy1199

[Tokarev]

I reload only jacketed or plated bullets and I have reduced my powder inventory to two -- WST and WSF. My preferred load for .40 caliber is 6.5 grains of WSF under a 155 gr Rainier or MG plated FP. WST is a faster burning powder and 4.5 grains under a 230gr .45ACP plated RN from Rainier, MC or Berrys works just fine. Both loads are extremely accurate with negligible recoil, low flash and clean burning.

How's your standard deviation and extreme spread with the light bullets and WSF? I loaded up a handful of rounds with WSF and some 155 JHP bullets over the weekend and was getting 60-80 feet per second spreads between two different guns.

[Deputy1199]

Tokarev:

I never calculated standard deviation or extreme spread with these loads because I don't have a chronograph. It doesn't matter to me anyway, because these loads are used for range shooting and not competition. Load data that I've seen indicates that from my Glock 23 muzzle velocity is 1,050 fps which feels to me to be similar to factory loads.