How close can you safely shoot steel with lead .22lr rounds?

[chp5]

First question: How close can you safely shoot steel with lead .22lr rounds?

I know our rules state 10 yards, but the Cowboys shoot steel with lead really close.

I’m shooting hanging miniature IPSC plates that have some “give” to them.

Second question: Does that answer change if you shoot Remington “Golden Bullet” rounds?

The box says they are copper plated, but I’ve also heard them described as copper washed. In any event, is three a copper jacket that can separate from the lead and create back splatter?

Thanks for your thoughts.

[bgary]

know our rules state 10 yards

Not a complete answer to your question, but a note: USPSA rules are 7 yards (plus a two foot "buffer zone"), not 10 yards.

See 2.1.3 or 10.5.17 in the current rulebook

B

[MichiganShootist]

To be 100% safe---- Who Knows. I think we've all seen splatter at 10 yards from defensive "powered" caliber pistols.

I do know that at my club's indoor range we shoot 22s at 21 feet and if a support is struck there is often lead splatter that reaches the firing line.

On the Remington ammo... I wouldn't guess that the thin coating (which is about the thickness of paint) would make any difference good or bad. Lastly I'd suggest that HP ammo might be better for this purpose because it fragments pretty fast on steel.

My best guesses.

Edited April 21, 2008 by MichiganShootist

[A-shot]

I caught splatter this weekend from way outside 7 yards, as a spectator. It still hit with enough force to bleed. I wouldn't want to get any closer to steel than we already do.

[HSMITH]

I'd sooner shoot steel at 7 yards with my open gun than I would a 22. A 22 will probably send bigger pieces back at you and possibly a whole bullet where my open gun nearly vaporizes the bullets when they hit.

[WDB]

After this weekend at Area 6 I wouldn't say there is guaranteed "safe" distance. I was standing about 10-12 feet behind and probably 30 feet to the right , with a berm in between so I couldn't even see the targets of the Golck Challenge and caught a piece below the lip. It was big enough to see coming but to fast to move out of the way. Once a bullet hits steel and gets deformed it can fly in ANY direction. Stay within the rules and make sure you and EVERYONE around has eye pro. on!!!

Edited April 22, 2008 by WDB

[chp5]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we frequently shoot jacketed ammo and the jacket accounts for most of the back splatter.

I've seen Cowboys shooting steel at 5 yards.

[AikiDale]

Steel must be flat! Imperfections in the steel result in major chaos theory explanations of where the splatter will go. If the steel is in good shape, then the splatter will likely depart the steel in a shallow cone. If there is any give much will be deflected downwards. With enough velocity the lead will be liquefied and the droplets won't have enough mass to travel very far. Hence HSMITHs observation Open class guns vaporize their rounds. The shooter is most often the least likely to get splashback in my observation. Spectators to the far right or left of the steel shooter tend to get the most. (Especially if they are forward of the shooter and in the next bay)

If you hit an angled surface, such as deformed steel or a support structure, all bets are off and the shooter can be seriously wounded as well as a spectator.

As for .22 I would suggest lead with the highest velocity will be more likely to have the least bounce back.

But then I am not a physicist, an engineer nor do I play one on TV. YMMV.

[Dave Gundry]

I don't like shooting 22LR at steel closer than ~20 yards. They tend to stay together on the bounce, rather than self destruct like the bigger centerfire pistol cartridges.

The only time I've had a jacket come back (and it cut me pretty good) was shooting at an indoor range about 10 yards away from their chunked rubber backstop. I think a jacket from another boolit was sitting there and got catapulted by my round.

I did get hit in the shoulder once at a match by a VERY large (i.e. complete) boolit, but the nearest steel was at least 100 yards (4 bays over) away. Someone must have double tapped the steel.

There is no safe distance sums it up pretty well.

[Patrick Sweeney]

I am an engineer (or at least trained to be one) and the most important aspect of the steel is bay far the condition of the surface. The angle is secondary by a large margin.

You want flat. As in; no craters, weld seams, etc. A crater acts as a reverse lens, focusing splatter back. Flat steel, I have no problems shooting relatively close. Ten yards is fine, as closer doesn't take much skill. Cratered steel? 50+ yards, and more is better.

The copper wash or plating on .22LR is so thin that it offers no structural integrity to the bullet. It would make no difference in bounceback, certainly nothing compared to the surface condition of the palte itself.

[Johann the Horrible]

The bigger bullets carry more momentum that the smaller ones. So some closer should be OK, ask the engineers how much closer.

We do not have Cowboy shooting here is South Africa but 5 yards or even 5 meters sounds way to close. They use large calibers with heavy bullets.

Two years ago I got whacked by a 9mm bullet and that was large enough thank you.

I think we all expect to be hit by ricocheting bullets in our sport, that is why we give ourselves a bit of room and give the bullets some time to loose momentum before hitting us. .22`s are lighter and so carry less momentum and should cause less severe injuries

[LPatterson]

I've got a 6"X11" 3/8" plate (actually 3 of them) that I use at 7 yards for Bill Drills and transitions with a 22/45 and I have never had splatter come back at me with Federal or Remington bulk pack. When I am using the 9mm or 45 I do back off to 10 yards.

[RogerT]

Tests conducted by the Swedish pistol shooting confederation at an indoor range with unjacketed .22LR ammunition.

Target: 20 mm thick, fixed plate of 400 brinell hardness.

Distance: 15 metres

Total round count: 60 rounds of .22LR ammo fired from both pistols and rifles.

Total weight of bullets fired at plate: 156 gram.

Result:

at 2,5 metres from the plate, the total weight of bullet fragments collected from the floor was 18 to 20 grams,

at 5 metres from the steel plate the total weight of bullet fragments on the floor was 4 to 6 grams,

at 7,5 metres the was no splatter at all.

Conclusion:

.22LR ammo don't give any back splatter or bounce back effect at all beyond 7,5 metres (8.2 yd) when fired at a flat steel surface, the bullet desintegrates against the plate and fragments are spread along the plate surface when the firing is done at a 90 degree angle towards the plate.

[EricW]

I've been hit by lead cores *and* jackets. My *opinion* is that the most dangerous bullets on the range are low velocity, heavy bullets. Those don't disintegrate like a bullet out of a super and tend to fly back as large chunks. If you're going to shoot 22LR @ close range, your best bet is high-velocity hollow-points.

Downtilt on the steel does not protect *the shooter*. It's there to protect everyone else on the range by directing the larger bullet fragments to the ground. If the steel is not cratered or mis-engineered, the shooter will virtually never be hit by a bullet fragment. Without the downtilt, you have a far greater chance that those chunks will fly over a berm. Virtually all the times I've been hit by bullets have been spectating or RO'ing or standing a bay or two away from the shooting.

And Pat is absolutely correct on severely cratered steel. There's almost no safe distance inside of 50 yards.