performance

[Ron Ankeny]

I have seen friends of mine choke time and again on classifiers. In particular, I have friends who had moving up a class as a goal and a priority for years. The classifier would come along and they were under so much self imposed pressure, and they try so hard...then Alpha-Mike, a bobbled reload.... Anytime a person takes their mind out of the shooting and focuses on another realm (moving up...don't choke...be careful of the no-shoots...) disaster is just around the corner. Like Flex said, "We choose..."

Edited April 10, 2008 by Ron Ankeny

[cnote]

I don't like to win STAGES ....... I like to win MATCHES!

(in other words ... see what Flyin40 said)

I was talking to Flex on the phone about this exact topic the other day. He brought up an excellent point. If you just try to have a solid performance through all the stages you can sometimes be slow on the time. Your turning in solid performances but not at the top. You still have to attack the stages aggressively in your movements. A good example Flex gave was SmittyFl's performance at the Florida Open Match. Not only did he win the match but he got after every stage. You can tell because he got the most match points for the win but also but also got such a high percentage of the availiable match points. Just a great performance.

Basically you can have a solid performance on every stage but still not be at the top. You still have to attack the stages. It just a fine line how far to push. I quit thinking about "burning a stage down" and try to visualize being smooth and aggressive in movements but still calling each shot. This has been difficult to do. The more running and shooting I do the more my shooting used to go to "just see brown and shoot".

This is probably its own topic

Flyin

Please correct me if I am wrong

"Not only did he win the match but he got after every stage. You can tell because he got the most match points for the win but also but also got such a high percentage of the available match points. Just a great performance."

Are you stating he aggressively went after every stage, as fast as he could, but shooting all A's to the best of his ability. Kinda slowing down just enough to dance the "fine line." This would be how he achieved th high # of and % of match points???

thanks in advance

[Flexmoney]

What Flyin40 is talking about is a bit off topic. I commented to him (on the phone) about the 'winning matches versus winning stages' stuff...which is only important if you are in a position to win the match, I'd think. I wasn't at the Florida Open. I just like to sprinkle out the tea leaves and see what they tell me sometimes. At that match, there was a total of 1570 possible match points. Smitty got 1531 of them. That doesn't say how he shot...just that he totally owned the match.

-----------------------

As for classifiers...and match shooting in general...

I don't now believe in shooting with a predetermined outcome in mind. But, as I was coming up through the ranks, it did help me (at my point in development) to hold back on the throttle a bit. Roughly, I looked at my classifier percentage and I used that as a means of how hard to push my shooting. If my classifier percentage was sitting at 73%, then I didn't get good results if I tried to shoot at 85-90% of full throttle.

[Flyin40]

In my first post it kind of sounded like I said if you shoot a decent performance on each stage and be consistent for the match that you will finish well/at the top. What Flex brought up is that might not be true. You can have solid performances but still not be towards the top if you don't go after a stage. At a major match my goal is to shoot within my class or higher. Like Flex was saying, if I try to shoot the whole match at 95% I will crash and burn on a few stages. This is from experience.

When I talk about finishing at the top I'm talking about your finish based on your current level. You don't have to win the match to be successful. When I was an A class shooter a solid match was shooting to my ability which was A at the time and I considered that a good match. So in other words if I was an A class and was really careful and shot alot of A's but my stage times was too slow because I didn't attack(again for me I'm talking about actual movements, not the actual pulling of the trigger) the stage to my ability(which was A class) my score most likely be a B class score in the overall standing.

As far as the question about Smitty shooting at that fine line you would have to ask him. What I meant was that(based on the competition at the match) he couldn't of just trotted along shooting A's at a nice pace. There were some great shooters there. When I talked about attacking the stage I was talking about movement and not so much shooting. For me, at the point I'm at right now my best stages seem to be the ones that feel like I went and attacked the stages(running from spot to spot, getting around obstacles, hitting a shooting position fast and smoothly) but my shooting felt slow.

When I was a B class I tried to go through stages like a was an A class or master, trying to ride that fine line and I tanked alot of stages

When I was an A class I tried to go through stages like a Master class or Gm, again trying to ride that fine line and I tanked even more stages

When I became a Master class I initially tried to shoot at GM level all the time. I was a M class at stand and shoot only. I was probably a low class A on field courses. I tanked alot of stages, mostly field courses. This is when I started working on field course and began to understand that you don't have to go at 100% throttle to finish well that you just have to shoot your class. You don't have to go full blast but you can't just mosey along the field course. This is when I started understanding that I needed to quit trying and just shoot the gun, call the shot and follow through. Thats all I needed to worry about shooting. The rest is movement on the stage for me.

Something I still working on now.

Hopefully this helped get my point across better

So how does this come into your original post. Shoot within your class and ability at that point and time on all stages whatever they are. If your an B class shooter try to turn in a consistent performances at matches. You can experiment with your own throttle to figure out how you go after a stage.

Squeeze the trigger, call the shot and have some fun.

Flyin

Edited April 11, 2008 by Flyin40

[38superman]

This is an interesting question for me.

To see someone burn down stage after stage and tank a classifier may mean they did it on purpose.

It may only mean that they have fallen victim to inconsistency just as I often do.

When I do move up, I want it to be because I got better across the board and I want it to be real.

Therefore, I don't practice classifiers and try not to approach them them any differently than other stages at a match.

Unfortunately, the truth is that I do tank a lot of them.

I think that's partly because most classifiers are speed shoots and I simply tend to do better on field courses.

Speed shoots are usually shorter with less points and magnify your mistakes.

Pull a penalty or drop a few extra points on a 160 point field course and it will cost you.

Get a mike on a speed shoot and you tanked the stage completely.

Furthermore, a lot of classifiers require the use of skills we don't practice enough and don't typically see anywhere but classifiers.

A good example would be weak hand / strong hand strings.

I'm at a point where I just don't worry about classifiers too much.

I figure once I'm good enough to win my class in major matches, I'll get bumped up anyway.

If I'm not good enough to do that what is the point of moving up?

Tony

Edited April 11, 2008 by 38superman

[Ron Ankeny]

If I'm not good enough to do that what is the point of moving up?

This is a just a guess, but I would think the majority of people who move up through the ranks never won their class at a major match.

When I became a Master class I initially tried to shoot at GM level all the time. I was a M class at stand and shoot only. I was probably a low class A on field courses. I tanked alot of stages, mostly field courses. This is when I started working on field course and began to understand that you don't have to go at 100% throttle to finish well that you just have to shoot your class. You don't have to go full blast but you can't just mosey along the field course. This is when I started understanding that I needed to quit trying and just shoot the gun, call the shot and follow through. Thats all I needed to worry about shooting. The rest is movement on the stage for me.

That is exactly what I experienced. In fact, there was a time when it wasn't uncommon for me to shoot 95-100 on classifiers, win speed shoot stages outright, and only pull off low A class performances on long courses. Edited April 12, 2008 by Ron Ankeny

[askomiko]

I've been reading about this classifier system, and to me, it feels weird. On the other side of the pond, we get our classification by average of 5 latest match scores from lev 2 and higher. I like that system.

[Flyin40]

I've been reading about this classifier system, and to me, it feels weird. On the other side of the pond, we get our classification by average of 5 latest match scores from lev 2 and higher. I like that system.

What are you shooting???? Ipsc I'm assuming but I know they also use a classifier system. I was able to get classified last yr in one match.

If you shoot larger matches it would work but here in the U.S. it would take 4 yrs for some guys to get a classification. The only big match alot of guys shoot would be their state Sectional and there is still some who don't even shoot that. Here we only have Level 1, 2 and 3.

Flyin

[askomiko]

I've been reading about this classifier system, and to me, it feels weird. On the other side of the pond, we get our classification by average of 5 latest match scores from lev 2 and higher. I like that system.

What are you shooting???? Ipsc I'm assuming but I know they also use a classifier system. I was able to get classified last yr in one match.

If you shoot larger matches it would work but here in the U.S. it would take 4 yrs for some guys to get a classification. The only big match alot of guys shoot would be their state Sectional and there is still some who don't even shoot that. Here we only have Level 1, 2 and 3.

Flyin

Well, I shot 5 lev 2 and 3 matches last summer. If I remember right, one score is enough to get a D classification, 5 scores (averaging 80% or something) for A, so more results are only needed on the higher levels. IPSC, Finland, with 5 million residents, so it's like a one town in US. Usually when there is a level 2 or 3, all the country's top shooters are participating. (We are a small country, 1000 miles is the longest possible drive..) No need to sandbag or grandbag, you are classified by the real match result. I don't see any downsides to it, but on the other hand, of course it's great to have a standard stages where you can compare your score directly to the GM Gods. Downside of course being the sandbagging/class weirdness..

Edited April 19, 2008 by askomiko