tambarika Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 I have a 650 that has been in use for many years. I have a problem with brass popping out of station one on the up stroke of the arm. the brass is firmly seated on the down stroke, but i watch it as the plate moves up to push it into the sizing die and it moves backward just enough to jam against the die almost every time. the 650 is securely attached to my work bench. it is level. the shell plate is properly adjusted. i have removed 1/2 coil from the detent spring under the shell plate ball. this is very frustrating. i am pretty good with diagnosing mechanical issues but this one has me stumped. if i move the arm very slowly, i can keep the brass aligned and it moves into the sizing die. on what i would consider a normal speed upstroke (about 250 rounds per hour) the brass jams 90% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 I had that same problem. What fixed it for me was replacing the little ramp thingy that the case slides along into station one. The rails had become slightly askew somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusher Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Check the shellplate for a small piece of debris (polsihing media, powder, ect) in the case grooves. If you are using an EGW U-Die you may have to replace the retaining button with the next larger size in that station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tambarika Posted March 23, 2008 Author Share Posted March 23, 2008 Check the shellplate for a small piece of debris (polsihing media, powder, ect) in the case grooves. If you are using an EGW U-Die you may have to replace the retaining button with the next larger size in that station. i did that. it's clean. i'm using a Dillon die, and it is properly adjusted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 What calibre are you loading ? If it is .38 super are you using rimless .38 Super or regular .38 Super ? If using rimless .38 Super the ramp should have a 3 stamped underneath it... If using regular .38 Super then you want the one with a 5 stamped on it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastshooter03 Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Is the case pusher away from the case when the case comes out of the plate or is the case sorta stuck on the pusher and when it backs away the case goes with it a little ways? Are you using any type of case lube or are they polished? Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tambarika Posted March 24, 2008 Author Share Posted March 24, 2008 Is the case pusher away from the case when the case comes out of the plate or is the case sorta stuck on the pusher and when it backs away the case goes with it a little ways? Are you using any type of case lube or are they polished?Nick i am using case lube. they are 45 acp. the case is not sutck on the plate. i replaced the spring that tensions the triangular arm that pushes the case into the shell plate. the case remians in the shell plate until the plate starts to move up. at that point the case bounces out about 1/32 to 1/16 of an inch, jamming on the sizing die. the pusher is not pulling the case. thanks for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tambarika Posted March 24, 2008 Author Share Posted March 24, 2008 What calibre are you loading ? If it is .38 super are you using rimless .38 Super or regular .38 Super ?If using rimless .38 Super the ramp should have a 3 stamped underneath it... If using regular .38 Super then you want the one with a 5 stamped on it... 45 acp. interestingly enough, i do not have the problem when i switch to .40 S&W, so something is askew or worn. i have other unused tool heads. i am considering swapping one out to see if it is a tolerance issue. the tool head does not move in the frame. the pins are secure. all other stations work flawlessly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickpony Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Might check for a crack in the shellplate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 I had that same problem. What fixed it for me was replacing the little ramp thingy that the case slides along into station one. The rails had become slightly askew somehow. I've been having that particular issue on my 650 with 9mm. That little bridge insert seems to be worn and the cases won't stand up proud and straight. (nobody wants that problem). tambarika, Are you seeing that the case is actually moving back out as you raise the shell plate, or just noticing that it starts out fine and then hangs up on the die every so often? Maybe that die isn't "squared" ? It could be the tool head too. I also have this problem with 9mm on my 650. I am using Lee dies, so I don't have the extra bit of "funnel" that the Dillon die would have at station 1. But, I've thought of changing tool heads to test if that might make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 To everyone offering solutions, thanks, I am watching this thread as I am experiencing this problem occassionally with my 650. The wear on the bridge makes sense so I will try that and post when I get some results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tambarika Posted March 25, 2008 Author Share Posted March 25, 2008 To everyone offering solutions, thanks, I am watching this thread as I am experiencing this problem occassionally with my 650. The wear on the bridge makes sense so I will try that and post when I get some results. i just ordered another bridge. will report back when i have it installed. the die is square -- i have adjusted it several times. i appreciate everyone's contributions. i have loaded at least 10000 rounds of 45 acp on this machine, only about 1400 40 S&W. everything else is tight and right. i shoot around 1000 rounds of 45 acp per month, so this is a major source of aggravation. i looked closely at the aluminum bridge / channel -- it does show some wear compared to the one for the 40. i'm going to swap out heads and load some .40 tomorrow, and maybe switch shell plates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adiksaputok Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 I have the same problem, tried a lot of things and patience has run out and for now the only solution for me is to send mine back to Dillon this weekend in time for superstition match. it is too late for me to change the bridge since my 650 is packed and ready to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 I think we have two issues going here. At least...I do. 1. I've developed an issue with the bridge insert that the brass rides in to get to station 1. Mine is worn and the brass sits on it like the leaning tower of Pisa. Often, it won't advance to station 1. Sometimes, it will kick over and then I bust a decapping pin if I don't catch it. 2. Once brass gets into station 1, I will sometimes get brass that won't feed into the sizing die. It catches on the edge. I've been able to decrease this with some change of technique. I found that how I placed the bullet on the seating station would be a factor. For problem 2... This only happens when loading 9mm on my press. (I used to load 40 exclusively and never had any issue.) I do use Lee dies (standard carbide sizing, not U), so I don't have as much funnel as a Dillon sizing die might have. For me, it seems to be a shell plate to tool head to die alignment issue. Possible tie in with this thread: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=62180 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddy_fuentes Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 I have loaded a zillion forty-fives on my 650 with no trouble. I then switched to forty S&W with the EWG under sized Lee die and started have issues. I adjusted the triangle piece as far forward as possible and noticed it moved back after a few rounds. It was cracked. Dillon sent me a new one. The new one works fine, but the problem still exist and I think it is the EWG die does not have a tapered to allow for imperfect alignment. My solution is to set up the EWG die in a single stage press and run all my brass through it then use the regular Dillon die from then on. Any new brass coming into my shop will get the EWG treatment. Buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Does anyone have this problem and they are using Dillon dies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 (edited) JT, Mine is with the standard Dillon 9mm Carbide sizing die. My feeling is that the bridge replacement will help when I do it, as the problem just began a few thousand rounds ago, which to me indicates something is worn or bent. Dies are tight in the tool head, shellplate is adjusted correctly etc. The only thing I haven't looked at is the bridge. When I get back from double tap I am gonna look at it. Edited March 25, 2008 by smokshwn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 I called Dillon about problem 1... as a preventive measure, the rep suggested adding some grease under the bridge (station 1 locator) to work as a shock absorber. Can't hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 JT, Mine is with the standard Dillon 9mm Carbide sizing die. My feeling is that the bridge replacement will help when I do it, as the problem just began a few thousand rounds ago, which to me indicates something is worn or bent. Dies are tight in the tool head, shellplate is adjusted correctly etc. The only thing I haven't looked at is the bridge. When I get back from double tap I am gonna look at it. Let us know when you replace it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 will do my friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tambarika Posted March 29, 2008 Author Share Posted March 29, 2008 JT, Mine is with the standard Dillon 9mm Carbide sizing die. My feeling is that the bridge replacement will help when I do it, as the problem just began a few thousand rounds ago, which to me indicates something is worn or bent. Dies are tight in the tool head, shellplate is adjusted correctly etc. The only thing I haven't looked at is the bridge. When I get back from double tap I am gonna look at it. i replaced my station #1 bridge last night and ran about a dozen pieces of brass through. while that is not a definitive number to say it solved the problem, it did appear to help. i won't be reloading any more .45 for about 2 weeks -- i'm stocked up for this weekend's training and next week's match, so if i notice any other problems when i begin to reload, i will swap out die heads and report back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 JT, Mine is with the standard Dillon 9mm Carbide sizing die. My feeling is that the bridge replacement will help when I do it, as the problem just began a few thousand rounds ago, which to me indicates something is worn or bent. Dies are tight in the tool head, shellplate is adjusted correctly etc. The only thing I haven't looked at is the bridge. When I get back from double tap I am gonna look at it. i replaced my station #1 bridge last night and ran about a dozen pieces of brass through. while that is not a definitive number to say it solved the problem, it did appear to help. i won't be reloading any more .45 for about 2 weeks -- i'm stocked up for this weekend's training and next week's match, so if i notice any other problems when i begin to reload, i will swap out die heads and report back. Keep us posted when you load a hundred or more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 I called Dillon about problem 1... as a preventive measure, the rep suggested adding some grease under the bridge (station 1 locator) to work as a shock absorber. Can't hurt. I had a 650 about 10-12 years ago back in England. I am sure that there used to be a small spring under that bridge. Or perhaps my imagination is playing tricks on me. When the case feed slid the case down the bridge the spring would compress and as the feeder retracted (as the plate rose), the ramp would rise up and the lip on the end would rise above the case rim and keep it in the slot on the shell plate... Did Dillon used to have a spring there or am I going nuts ? If they had one, why was it removed, if not then why don't they add one. It would solve the problem permanently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tambarika Posted April 6, 2008 Author Share Posted April 6, 2008 JT, Mine is with the standard Dillon 9mm Carbide sizing die. My feeling is that the bridge replacement will help when I do it, as the problem just began a few thousand rounds ago, which to me indicates something is worn or bent. Dies are tight in the tool head, shellplate is adjusted correctly etc. The only thing I haven't looked at is the bridge. When I get back from double tap I am gonna look at it. i replaced my station #1 bridge last night and ran about a dozen pieces of brass through. while that is not a definitive number to say it solved the problem, it did appear to help. i won't be reloading any more .45 for about 2 weeks -- i'm stocked up for this weekend's training and next week's match, so if i notice any other problems when i begin to reload, i will swap out die heads and report back. Keep us posted when you load a hundred or more... OK. problem solved. it was the die head. i had been loading .40 S&W for the last week with nary a squeak, and switched back to .45 ACP today. i didn't really want to go through the hassle of readjusting all of my dies again -- but i figured i would bite the bullet -- if you will pardon the pun -- and try a different head. Sure enough, the brass moves up into station one perfectly aligned now. i did replace the aluminum bridge also, but the swapping of the heads made such a noticeable visible difference, that it was plain to see where the problem was. hope this helps other people afflicted with the same ailment -- it certainly can be annoying to constantly have to push the brass into the shell plate to keep up a decent loading routine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tambarika Posted April 6, 2008 Author Share Posted April 6, 2008 I called Dillon about problem 1... as a preventive measure, the rep suggested adding some grease under the bridge (station 1 locator) to work as a shock absorber. Can't hurt. I had a 650 about 10-12 years ago back in England. I am sure that there used to be a small spring under that bridge. Or perhaps my imagination is playing tricks on me. When the case feed slid the case down the bridge the spring would compress and as the feeder retracted (as the plate rose), the ramp would rise up and the lip on the end would rise above the case rim and keep it in the slot on the shell plate... Did Dillon used to have a spring there or am I going nuts ? If they had one, why was it removed, if not then why don't they add one. It would solve the problem permanently. just checked my dillon manual. no spring. great idea though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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