Carmoney Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 I'm wondering whether a Redhawk in .45 LC has its chambers in the same pattern as a 625 and could be cut to function with ordinary .45 moonclips. Anybody know the answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vrmn1 Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 I'm wondering whether a Redhawk in .45 LC has its chambers in the same pattern as a 625 and could be cut to function with ordinary .45 moonclips. Anybody know the answer? Mike HKS speedloaders for 44's work for Smiths and Ruger Redhawks. So I would be willing to lay money they are on the same bolt circle. I do know they can be cut for moonclips. I know a few folks that have had it done. I will ask around and see it any of them have tried the Ruger moon clips in Smiths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Santiago Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Mike, Try here.... http://www.rugerforum.org Lot's of friendly Ruger knowledge there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vrmn1 Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Mike, my buddy just comfirmed they would work. He had some 625 moonclips surface ground to fit his Redhawk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwx40x40 Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 I'm wondering whether a Redhawk in .45 LC has its chambers in the same pattern as a 625 and could be cut to function with ordinary .45 moonclips. Anybody know the answer? Mike , if you are dabbling with the idea of converting the New 4" 45LC to 45acp with moonclips, keep us in the loop. I would like to know how it turns out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 It's a concept I've been thinking about. Kilhoffer's got a thing on his website mentioning that Hartshorne will convert a Redhawk for moons, and I don't see any special Ruger moonclips listed anywhere. Sounds like it might be feasible. (Not sure what it would accomplish, though....) I wouldn't want to get involved in surface grinding special moonclips or anything like that, though. If it can't be completely functional with standard .45 moons, I'm not interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vrmn1 Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Well Mike my buddy had his converted for moons with 45 Colt. Those moon clips are only .022 or .025 thick. To shoot 45 acp he just had 625 moon clips ground down to .022. IF you are only going to shoot 45 acp you could have the cut made .040 deep and not have to worry about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sinko Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 My Redhawk is a .45 Colt and I use HKS speedloaders for the S&W 25 so the answer is yes. As for shooting .45 ACP out of a Redhawk, I think it could probably be done since the chambers tend to be not as sloppy as the S&W .45 Colt chambers. My chambers were cut with special reamers and are very tight so my gun would be a perfect candidate, but that is something that I will NEVER attempt. A spare Redhawk cylinder is not something that you can just go out and buy if the conversion doesn't work out well. The Redhawk action is not competitively viable at the higher levels of USPSA. I go out of my way to make my revolvers as versatile as possible, but this is one thing that I would not want to do. Dave Sinko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 Kilhoffer emailed me back this morning and said if you convert a Redhawk you have to use "special non-catalogued .030" moonclips" so I've pretty well lost interest in the concept. It was just an idea to play around with anyway. With the treatment we've been getting from S&W lately, I thought it would be interesting to explore other possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vrmn1 Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Kilhoffer emailed me back this morning and said if you convert a Redhawk you have to use "special non-catalogued .030" moonclips" so I've pretty well lost interest in the concept. It was just an idea to play around with anyway. With the treatment we've been getting from S&W lately, I thought it would be interesting to explore other possibilities. My buddy was not real happy with the accuracy of 45 acp out of his and has since sold it. His was a super redhawk 454 though so the that may make a difference. I love the Redhawk but I don't see them being a good option for this anyway. I agree with you on how Smith has been treating us lately but right now I don't see any other option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kframe_mike Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 I just had my wife's Super Red 454 cut for ACP moons and it seems to work really well.Its really fun to shoot and seems pretty accurate with the ACPs.It shoots them as well as Colts I guess.She's going to use it for pins.It will shoot 45/454 loose and ACP with standard thickness clips.I see no reason why it wouldn't shoot the thin Colt clips either.As far as depth,we just determined what the Colt headspace was,and just relieved enough so that a standard clip would headspace an ACP.It was definatly a worthwhile conversion for me as I don't have to screw around with loading Colts,I just hand her a few clips of my ACP "Uni-Loads".She' happy,I'm happy,life is good.-Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kframe_mike Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Also,I USED to have a straight Redhawk in .44.Hated it.You probably know this already,but I don't think you can get a decent trigger on these,its that single spring thing.The straight Reds can give light strikes from the factory.Mine did.I was told it was a known problem and Ruger never did anything to fix them.I traded mine off for a 629 Classic(durability package -3)and never looked back.-Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sinko Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Actually, you CAN get a really nice trigger pull on a Redhawk. I have one that proves it. I'm not surprised that a Redhawk cylinder can be machined to fire .45 ACP, though it is often disastrous when tried with a S&W cylinder. With the thinner moonclips made for the .45 Colt by TK Custom you should be able to fire moonclipped .45 Colt as well. The ignition problem is a bit more complicated and I get aggravated every time I think about it. I feel that mine is one of the best examples of what a Redhawk could (should?) be but if I had known about some of its design quirks, Ruger's attitude and my inevitable frustrations I probably would've never bought this gun in the first place. Dave Sinko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10mmdave Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Kilhoffer emailed me back this morning and said if you convert a Redhawk you have to use "special non-catalogued .030" moonclips" so I've pretty well lost interest in the concept. It was just an idea to play around with anyway. With the treatment we've been getting from S&W lately, I thought it would be interesting to explore other possibilities. Not sure the whole scope of your project mike but looking at the case specs it looks like you would need a .029-.030 deep cut to use std .040 thick moonclips (maybe a tad deeper for wiggle room) I can't figure out the TK comment, but I don't know what your questions were to him. I attached the case dwgs for both and if you look at the math it should be a doable deal. Now to go back to 45 Colt might be a problem, their short diameter rims could fall into whatever chamfer you add. Randy Hollowbush in PA did make a moonclipped 45ACP Redhawk years ago for a gentleman in NJ IIRC, hell I'll see that gent at the PSA and I'll ask if he still has it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted March 18, 2008 Author Share Posted March 18, 2008 Thanks Dave. It sure would seem that if you are willing to commit to a full conversion (w/o leaving .45 Colt as an option), machining it down to accommodate standard moonclips would work. In any event, it appears to be clear that the dimensional placement of the chambers in the wheel is the same as that used by S&W, which was my main concern. I don't know if I'll ever actually try this on a Redhawk, but it still is an idea that intrigues me. Although I have done action work on the Security-Six series plenty of times, I have never worked on a Redhawk action. I do understand it to be a difficult action to tune, and maybe this is the main flaw in the whole concept. I'm also not certain that I would like the Ruger cylinder release on a match gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vrmn1 Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 Thanks Dave. It sure would seem that if you are willing to commit to a full conversion (w/o leaving .45 Colt as an option), machining it down to accommodate standard moonclips would work. In any event, it appears to be clear that the dimensional placement of the chambers in the wheel is the same as that used by S&W, which was my main concern. I don't know if I'll ever actually try this on a Redhawk, but it still is an idea that intrigues me. Although I have done action work on the Security-Six series plenty of times, I have never worked on a Redhawk action. I do understand it to be a difficult action to tune, and maybe this is the main flaw in the whole concept. I'm also not certain that I would like the Ruger cylinder release on a match gun. If you are just going to shoot 45 acp and never shoot 45 colt yes it can be cut to take regular 625 moon clips. Hell you decide to do it I will do the work for you. All that will be needed is slap it in a lathe and face it off and the ejector. I am almost positive I will have access to one next weekend, I will look at it and make sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sinko Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 If you're going to moonclip it forget about .45 ACP and simply use .45 Winchester Magnum in Starline brass. Now THAT is a real useful conversion which never got the attention it deserves. Dave Sinko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwx40x40 Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 If you're going to moonclip it forget about .45 ACP and simply use .45 Winchester Magnum in Starline brass. Now THAT is a real useful conversion which never got the attention it deserves.Dave Sinko I like the way you are thinking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted March 19, 2008 Author Share Posted March 19, 2008 When I was shooting pins, I used to load a 255-gr. bullet in .45 ACP brass with enough Unique powder to make it go 1000 fps. Worked fine in my S&Ws, and gave great pin action! How's that compare to .45 Win Mag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sinko Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 You should be able to get MUCH more than 1000 FPS with a 255 gr. bullet. I tried light loads in my M25 conversion to see if the longer brass would give better ignition or accuracy but in that instance it did not. You would need to use Starline brass since Winchester does not fit into the moonclips. I proposed such a conversion to Hamilton Bowen and Dave Clements. Bowen had no interest at all (apparently converting a J Frame to .25 ACP with full moonclips was more important) and Clements said he had actually done a few in the past. Both agreed that to do it properly you would need a .357 or .41 cylinder for a good rebore job, but if you want a "poor man's conversion" I'm sure you could just moonclip a .45 Colt cylinder and headspace on the clips. I wanted (and would still like) a spare cylinder for my .45 Colt that was cut to hold individual rounds of .45 Win Mag and would fire without the moonclips, like a proper 625. That would be a very expensive proposition but I do believe what you are proposing should be feasible. Seems like the more adventurous of you should give this a try! Dave Sinko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
20nickels Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 Hi Dave, Why not .45 Win Mag? This has been eating at me for quite some time. I've been bothering High Velocity to try it in his converted 25. I could not find case length for .45 Win Mag, is it the same as Colt? Also, there may be a downside to this, but only if you shoot magnum level loads. In a full moonclip it is possible that the case might set back when fired and taking some of the others with it binding the cylinder up. 1/3 moonclips might solve this or try headspacing the case on a lockring. I'm adventurous, however penniless too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sinko Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 A .45 Win. Mag. conversion of a Model 25 may or may not work. With mine it did NOT work. If you have a .45 Colt that has been cut for .45 ACP with the thicker moonclips, .45 Win. Mag. should drop right in. You do NOT want to run full throttle .45 Win. Mag. in any Model 25 that has undergone such a conversion! Factory cut chambers are always sloppy and at the very least you will ruin your brass if not the cylinder if very heavy loads are used. The Redhawk is a different story since the chambers tend to be tighter, though still not as tight as they should be. A Redhawk should be able to handle the heaviest .45 Win. Mag. loads with ease, but you may still ruin the brass with imperfect chambers. If you must have a .45 Win. Mag. conversion on the S&W platform the most sensible thing to do is rebore a .41 Magnum cylinder. A .357 cylinder would work also, but they may be short and limit the length of the loaded cartridges. Spare cylinders are far more common for S&W revolvers than Rugers. You would need to find a gunsmith who has actually done this and knows how to get it right. To my knowledge, Dave Clements is the only one who has done this with the Rugers, and he should be able to do it with the S&W if he is still doing that kind of work. All you would need to do is rebore the cylinder and then obtain a .452 barrel, which shouldn't be a problem. Dave Sinko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted March 22, 2008 Author Share Posted March 22, 2008 If the goal is to have lots of power and fast reloads, I would think that simply moonclipping a .44 Magnum would accomplish the task easier and cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sinko Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 Moonclipping a .44 Magnum or .45 Colt would be the easiest thing to do. What's nice about the .45 Win. Mag. setup is you could shoot .45 GAP, 45 ACP, .45 Super, .451 Detonics, .460 Rowland (and probably some more) in addition to the .45 Win. Mag., all with the same common moonclip used for the 625. Dave Sinko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwx40x40 Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 Moonclipping a .44 Magnum or .45 Colt would be the easiest thing to do. What's nice about the .45 Win. Mag. setup is you could shoot .45 GAP, 45 ACP, .45 Super, .451 Detonics, .460 Rowland (and probably some more) in addition to the .45 Win. Mag., all with the same common moonclip used for the 625. Dave Sinko [/qu Now that's pretty versatile indeed. Just happen to have a a 657 that may be the platform for just such a conversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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